Cinjin, I feel your pain. My pseudo ex-brother-in-law (long story), does that shit at every family gathering. He has this seriously faux humble voice that he puts on when he does it too. It really gives me the willies.

(June 2, 2011 at 2:23 am)Statler Waldorf Wrote: That's a bunch of garbage. So you believe the most powerful country on earth just happens to be eighty percent theistic?

Yep pure coincndence.

Your country happens to be top dog for the moment because it had the good sense to join the last two world wars very late in the day and have an industrial base that was too far away to be attacked by the enemy.

And in all the time it has been top dog it has never achieved as much good as the british empire did.

The British empire tried to end slavery all by itself, deciding to do was at a time when slavery was a growth industry in 1833 this is a full 32 years before america banned it and we all know how the theists(in he south) reacted to that.

Statler. Just because Mao and Stalin were atheists does not mean they killed millions because of their religious beliefs, they killed them for their POLITICAL beliefs. Your country hasnt been crazy religious like it is now, for as long as you think. Catholic church held back science for centuries. Also look at most atheist countries followed by standards of living.

Here's a little prayer I made up years ago; recite it loudly and reverently and you'll fool them all:

Angelorum rex sapientissimus ecclesiam hominum omnium laetitiae erexit sanctificavitque.

(The all-wise king of angels built and sanctified the church to the happiness of all men.)

Don't let'em see it written down - they might notice what the first letters of the words add up to.

The Reformation of the 17th century did help create the Age of Enlightenment and subsequent explosion of scientific knowledge but not for the reasons Statler would like to think.

The breaking of Catholic power and it's monolithic stranglehold on Western society was an essential step. This is not to say the Protestants were any better behaved. They only fractured Christian power thoroughly enough to allow thinking people the room they needed to maneuver.

Statler, the people in the US claim to be religious, but they're lying.

(June 2, 2011 at 1:07 am)Godschild Wrote: have you ever given a thought that the food that was just prayed over might be tainted yet one does not get ill. I wonder just how often this might be the case, we never know.

If prayer really worked that way..then businesses would not be spending money keeping their food clean, and would merely pay people like you to pray over it.

Magical thinking...what a fucking idiot.

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(June 2, 2011 at 5:14 am)5thHorseman Wrote: Statler. Just because Mao and Stalin were atheists does not mean they killed millions because of their religious beliefs, they killed them for their POLITICAL beliefs. Your country hasnt been crazy religious like it is now, for as long as you think. Catholic church held back science for centuries. Also look at most atheist countries followed by standards of living.

You actually responded to that idiot Waldork?

I put his ranting stupidity on "Ignore"..something that I will be doing to the other fundies on this site soon enough.

(June 2, 2011 at 1:07 am)Godschild Wrote: have you ever given a thought that the food that was just prayed over might be tainted yet one does not get ill. I wonder just how often this might be the case, we never know.

How about those rare times when a meal has been prayed over and has been tainted and a young child has died horribly from food poisoning? And all those times where tainted food hasn't been prayed over and everyone had a fabulous meal with no side effects?

What does that suggest then? That prayer is pretty hit and miss and no better than chance!

(June 2, 2011 at 1:20 am)Cinjin Cain Wrote:

(June 2, 2011 at 1:07 am)Godschild Wrote: Most people use a tone of voice that is respectful when they pray, and some are praying in a manner that they have heard for years. No one who is truly praying to God uses a holier than thou tone, that type of praying is what Jesus condemed as no prayer at all. I pray anywhere at any time, the whole reason for prayer is to communicate with God and there's no set rules about how to pray other than the Lords prayer that Jesus gave us. There is nothing wrong with a set prayer such as one used at the dinner table, that is if one is praying more often than just at dinner, a prayer of thanksgiving is what christians see as proper at a meal.

As for the prayer you gave us I can see why you do not understand it, this prayer has christian principles in it that non-believers just can't grasp. The comment you make about the food already norishing our bodies is true, we do not have to pray to receive norishment from food, have you ever given a thought that the food that was just prayed over might be tainted yet one does not get ill. I wonder just how often this might be the case, we never know. I see one place in the prayer you have probably misquoted because it does not fit with the rest of the prayer, listen closer next time and see if you can find it, it jumped off the page as soon as I read the prayer.

I'm reasonably sure I didn't misquote him. I've heard this prayer many times, but I suppose anything is possible. Keep in mind, he's a mechanic who grew up drinking boos and huffing paint fumes ... not a man who's had 40 years of doctrine. His prayer's are going to reflect this.

As for your theory about tainted food ... that's one hell of a leap man. I haven't prayed for my food in 20 years and never once have gotten ill from bad food.

On another point. Do you pray before you eat no matter where or why??

Yes, I'm thankful for what God provides. If you're wondering if I fill embarrassed when praying in public I do not and really see no reason to be.

@ Statler first. Hey thanx for hijacking my thread with the baseborn history lesson.

(June 2, 2011 at 3:05 am)tackattack Wrote: To answer your questions.
-how you believers pray?
Just like I talk, like a conversation. (awaits talking to yourself comment)
-Where do you pray?
Wherever I am when it strikes me to pray. I don't always pray at meals, but it's a time to sit and chill and chat with family so usually I find it appropriate to pray at that time
-How often do you pray?
I don't really have an exact number but I would guesstimate 20-40 times a day. Most of them being a little three word prayer or a quick thank you.
-what the hell is up with the “holier-than-thou speech” used in prayers?
I don't know, I don't use that. I consider it a sign of ritualizing prayer, which IMO lessens it's value.
- Is that really necessary?
No but I find it usefull
-Does your god really need you to thank him that often?!?!?!
I don't know, thankfulness is typically for the release of teh thanker not the gratification of the thankee, IMO

20 to 40 times a day?!?! holy shit! I don't even think my father prays that much and he's jesus' best friend!


You said you find prayer useful. How? Does god answer your prayers even 20 times a day?

We do agree on that last point though. I think prayer is solely for the gratification of the thankor and not the thankee.
Since the majority of christians admit that they don't actually hear god talking to them, than it would clearly seem that prayer is only useful to the pray-er as a placebo. Probably no surprise hearing that from me.

I'll let the "talking to yourself" comment slide this time.

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(June 2, 2011 at 8:43 am)Godschild Wrote:

(June 2, 2011 at 1:20 am)Cinjin Cain Wrote:

(June 2, 2011 at 1:07 am)Godschild Wrote: I see one place in the prayer you have probably misquoted because it does not fit with the rest of the prayer, listen closer next time and see if you can find it, it jumped off the page as soon as I read the prayer.

I'm reasonably sure I didn't misquote him. I've heard this prayer many times, but I suppose anything is possible. Keep in mind, he's a mechanic who grew up drinking boos and huffing paint fumes ... not a man who's had 40 years of doctrine. His prayer's are going to reflect this.

As for your theory about tainted food ... that's one hell of a leap man. I haven't prayed for my food in 20 years and never once have gotten ill from bad food.

On another point. Do you pray before you eat no matter where or why??

Yes, I'm thankful for what God provides. If you're wondering if I fill embarrassed when praying in public I do not and really see no reason to be.

Praying in public is odd, but that's not really where I fault you on that particular statement. I would argue that god didn't provide you with that food. In fact, stop going to work and earning a pay check and we'll see if god keeps providing you with food.