(October 24, 2016 at 12:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

MysticKnight Wrote:There are many stronger (100% conclusive) arguments for God.

Would you please share what you consider the very best 100% conclusive proof of God? If God is real, I want to know.

One of the greatest proofs is that our real true selves requires an absolute perception to exist.
And one of the greatest proofs is by stages of praise and excellence, we know there is an absolute being who heightens and who is who the praise ascends to.
And one of the greatest proofs is that no possible hypothetical Creator in any possible world can create morality out of nothing and without already existing, meaning neither can evolution, as evolution and everything it makes can be created by a Creator. This shows it's eternal.
And one of the greatest proofs is that the good word ascends to him and hence proves his existence.
And one of the greatest proofs is that our innermost secret is unknown by us but forms an essential part our existence  and requires absolute perception and judgement.
And one of the greatest proofs is our compare anaylsis to everyone must be based on truth but it's not, which points to a true judgement that maintains who and others are, rather then our bad judgement.
And one the greatest proofs is that value to exist must get it's existence from absolute value and absolute value must be it's basis.
And one of the greatest proofs is applying the Euthyphro dilemma to evolution.
And one of the greatest proofs is our how we are blessed or cursed, and how blessed rain descends from the higher heavens in the case of blessings, and we are watered with one water though we are different trees in ourselves.

And I will leave it at that.

(October 24, 2016 at 6:36 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Forgive me, but here is again my information on the concept of God, from my reasoning on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas:

• God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

Prove it. You know, with evidence and stuff.

You cannot prove god by having as your first step in the proof be "we must assume that god exists".

(October 24, 2016 at 7:25 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Now you will continue with saying that it is circular reasoning.

What is wrong with circular reasoning?

Circular reasoning is the process whereby you use the claim to show the truth of the proof, and you show the truth to show the veracity of the claim. When you engage circular logic in an argument you never introduce external and independently verifiable evidence to show you are right. An example is, "god is real because the bible says so, I know that the bible is true because god told me so."

That is why it is wrong, because it is making a claim with no attempt to show the claim is right, you are asking us to accept you are correct simply because you say you are.

Quote:that is what we do in our mind, otherwise we will not even know in our mind what we are thinking about.

No we don't engage in circular reasoning on most topics. For example when I wanted to know the score of the Chelsea United match last Sunday, I didn't make up a score and assume it was true because my mind thought the score up, I looked up a newspaper report and found out that the score was 4-0 to Chelsea.

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 12:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Would you please share what you consider the very best 100% conclusive proof of God? If God is real, I want to know.

One of the greatest proofs is that our real true selves requires an absolute perception to exist.
And one of the greatest proofs is by stages of praise and excellence, we know there is an absolute being who heightens and who is who the praise ascends to.
And one of the greatest proofs is that no possible hypothetical Creator in any possible world can create morality out of nothing and without already existing, meaning neither can evolution, as evolution and everything it makes can be created by a Creator. This shows it's eternal.
And one of the greatest proofs is that the good word ascends to him and hence proves his existence.
And one of the greatest proofs is that our innermost secret is unknown by us but forms an essential part our existence  and requires absolute perception and judgement.
And one of the greatest proofs is our compare anaylsis to everyone must be based on truth but it's not, which points to a true judgement that maintains who and others are, rather then our bad judgement.
And one the greatest proofs is that value to exist must get it's existence from absolute value and absolute value must be it's basis.
And one of the greatest proofs is applying the Euthyphro dilemma to evolution.
And one of the greatest proofs is our how we are blessed or cursed, and how blessed rain descends from the higher heavens in the case of blessings, and we are watered with one water though we are different trees in ourselves.

And I will leave it at that.

None of those things are "proofs", MK. They are just things you declare without evidence to be true, because you really want them to be true.

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 12:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Would you please share what you consider the very best 100% conclusive proof of God? If God is real, I want to know.

One of the greatest proofs is that our real true selves requires an absolute perception to exist.
And one of the greatest proofs is by stages of praise and excellence, we know there is an absolute being who heightens and who is who the praise ascends to.
And one of the greatest proofs is that no possible hypothetical Creator in any possible world can create morality out of nothing and without already existing, meaning neither can evolution, as evolution and everything it makes can be created by a Creator. This shows it's eternal.
And one of the greatest proofs is that the good word ascends to him and hence proves his existence.
And one of the greatest proofs is that our innermost secret is unknown by us but forms an essential part our existence  and requires absolute perception and judgement.
And one of the greatest proofs is our compare anaylsis to everyone must be based on truth but it's not, which points to a true judgement that maintains who and others are, rather then our bad judgement.
And one the greatest proofs is that value to exist must get it's existence from absolute value and absolute value must be it's basis.
And one of the greatest proofs is applying the Euthyphro dilemma to evolution.
And one of the greatest proofs is our how we are blessed or cursed, and how blessed rain descends from the higher heavens in the case of blessings, and we are watered with one water though we are different trees in ourselves.

And I will leave it at that.

I thought we had you cured of this kind of nonsense, MK.

Baseless unevidenced assertions are not proof of god, nor will they ever be.

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 24, 2016 at 12:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Would you please share what you consider the very best 100% conclusive proof of God? If God is real, I want to know.

One of the greatest proofs is that our real true selves requires an absolute perception to exist.
And one of the greatest proofs is by stages of praise and excellence, we know there is an absolute being who heightens and who is who the praise ascends to.
And one of the greatest proofs is that no possible hypothetical Creator in any possible world can create morality out of nothing and without already existing, meaning neither can evolution, as evolution and everything it makes can be created by a Creator. This shows it's eternal.
And one of the greatest proofs is that the good word ascends to him and hence proves his existence.
And one of the greatest proofs is that our innermost secret is unknown by us but forms an essential part our existence  and requires absolute perception and judgement.
And one of the greatest proofs is our compare anaylsis to everyone must be based on truth but it's not, which points to a true judgement that maintains who and others are, rather then our bad judgement.
And one the greatest proofs is that value to exist must get it's existence from absolute value and absolute value must be it's basis.
And one of the greatest proofs is applying the Euthyphro dilemma to evolution.
And one of the greatest proofs is our how we are blessed or cursed, and how blessed rain descends from the higher heavens in the case of blessings, and we are watered with one water though we are different trees in ourselves.

And I will leave it at that.

So no proof then.

OP Wrote:What do you think of my proof for God existing?

Not much.

(October 25, 2016 at 10:49 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: One of the greatest proofs is that our real true selves requires an absolute perception to exist.
And one of the greatest proofs is by stages of praise and excellence, we know there is an absolute being who heightens and who is who the praise ascends to.
And one of the greatest proofs is that no possible hypothetical Creator in any possible world can create morality out of nothing and without already existing, meaning neither can evolution, as evolution and everything it makes can be created by a Creator. This shows it's eternal.
And one of the greatest proofs is that the good word ascends to him and hence proves his existence.
And one of the greatest proofs is that our innermost secret is unknown by us but forms an essential part our existence  and requires absolute perception and judgement.
And one of the greatest proofs is our compare anaylsis to everyone must be based on truth but it's not, which points to a true judgement that maintains who and others are, rather then our bad judgement.
And one the greatest proofs is that value to exist must get it's existence from absolute value and absolute value must be it's basis.
And one of the greatest proofs is applying the Euthyphro dilemma to evolution.
And one of the greatest proofs is our how we are blessed or cursed, and how blessed rain descends from the higher heavens in the case of blessings, and we are watered with one water though we are different trees in ourselves.

And I will leave it at that.

None of those things are "proofs", MK.  They are just things you declare without evidence to be true, because you really want them to be true.  

You basically have to deny EVERYTHING you know about yourself to deny ANY Of these proofs.

(October 25, 2016 at 11:26 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 25, 2016 at 10:49 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: None of those things are "proofs", MK.  They are just things you declare without evidence to be true, because you really want them to be true.  

You basically have to deny EVERYTHING you know about yourself to deny ANY Of these proofs.

Sorry but it was all Word Salad with undefined terms and huge assumptions.

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: One of the greatest proofs is that our real true selves requires an absolute perception to exist.

What do you mean by True Self? Absolute Perception?

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And one of the greatest proofs is by stages of praise and excellence, we know there is an absolute being who heightens and who is who the praise ascends to.

This is not a proof but a statement.

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And one of the greatest proofs is that no possible hypothetical Creator in any possible world can create morality out of nothing and without already existing, meaning neither can evolution, as evolution and everything it makes can be created by a Creator. This shows it's eternal.

You're assuming objective morality exists and isn't solely a human construct. Shows it's eternal? How?

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And one of the greatest proofs is that the good word ascends to him and hence proves his existence.

What does this even mean? What good word? What does it mean to ascend to him? Have you measured this happening? How would you?

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And one of the greatest proofs is that our innermost secret is unknown by us but forms an essential part our existence  and requires absolute perception and judgement.

What innermost secret? I haven't told anyone about my Y-front fetish. What is absolute perception and judgement? Why would it require this?

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And one of the greatest proofs is our compare anaylsis to everyone must be based on truth but it's not, which points to a true judgement that maintains who and others are, rather then our bad judgement.

What does that even mean?

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And one the greatest proofs is that value to exist must get it's existence from absolute value and absolute value must be it's basis.

Value is applied by a third party and does not exist but is nothing more than a concept. What is absolute value? How would you recognise or measure it?

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: And one of the greatest proofs is applying the Euthyphro dilemma to evolution.

I had never head of this dilemma before, but what I googled wasn't even pseudo science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

Quote:The Euthyphro dilemma is found in Plato's dialogue Euthyphro, in which Socrates asks Euthyphro, "Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

This has nothing to do with evolution. You haven't defined what pious means or how to measure it and you're making the assumption that there are gods (whatever a god is). Nor have you described how it is relevant to a physical process such as Darwinian evolution.

(October 25, 2016 at 10:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: One of the greatest proofs is that our real true selves requires an absolute perception to exist.

What real true selves? I don't follow the logic here. You need to elaborate.

Quote:And one of the greatest proofs is by stages of praise and excellence, we know there is an absolute being who heightens and who is who the praise ascends to.

We know? How do you know we know? Ever considered that individuals may differ in their intuition about these matters? I guess not.

Quote:And one of the greatest proofs is that no possible hypothetical Creator in any possible world can create morality out of nothing and without already existing, meaning neither can evolution, as evolution and everything it makes can be created by a Creator. This shows it's eternal.

Having a difficult time following your "logic" here. Morality stems from the the collective and personal mind. Not sure how the conclusion follows from the statements prior to it.

Quote:And one of the greatest proofs is that the good word ascends to him and hence proves his existence.

Uh, what good word? Do you even know what proof means?

Quote:And one of the greatest proofs is that our innermost secret is unknown by us but forms an essential part our existence  and requires absolute perception and judgement.

If it's unknown by us, how the hell do you know so much about it?

Quote:And one of the greatest proofs is our compare anaylsis to everyone must be based on truth but it's not, which points to a true judgement that maintains who and others are, rather then our bad judgement.

Huh? It's not based on truth, so it must point to truth? How have you confirmed the premises here?

Quote:And one the greatest proofs is that value to exist must get it's existence from absolute value and absolute value must be it's basis.

You haven't demonstrated how value must require absolute value for it to exist. Poetry is not a reliable means of evidence.

Quote:And one of the greatest proofs is applying the Euthyphro dilemma to evolution.

I have no clue what the fuck you're trying to argue here, lol. What does applying Euthyphro's dilemma to evolution have to do with God?

Quote:And one of the greatest proofs is our how we are blessed or cursed, and how blessed rain descends from the higher heavens in the case of blessings, and we are watered with one water though we are different trees in ourselves.

Again, poetry does not prove anything, MK. If I'm not mistaken you were doing computer science or something, right? Why don't you think like a computer scientist then when it comes to logical arguments?