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**Joods** · November 14, 2016 at 4:33 pm

(November 14, 2016 at 8:39 am)Edward John Wrote: If there is a creator, so what?

So what, SO WHAT! Are you an idiot? If God exists then you BETTER start doing exactly what he wants or Your going down, to HELL.

Stop eating laced mushrooms. Better wake up and come out of wonderland. Just make sure you leave all your other personalities behind. One of you is enough for us to have to deal with.

**robvalue** · November 14, 2016 at 4:34 pm

Ignorant: Well no, we haven't established I'm dependent on it for anything. You're making a lot of assumptions there. You're using your own ideas of what a creator represents.

But even if I am, so what?

**robvalue** · November 14, 2016 at 4:39 pm

If the creator still exists and has any interest in this creation, I may well be dependent on it not screwing with me or shutting the whole thing off. I doubt anything I could possibly do would be of any relevance to it.

Ignorant · (This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 4:53 pm by Ignorant.)

(November 14, 2016 at 4:34 pm)robvalue Wrote: Ignorant: Well no, we haven't established I'm dependent on it for anything. You're making a lot of assumptions there. You're using your own ideas of what a creator represents. [1]

But even if I am, so what? [2]

1) Ha! I though that was the idea? When you grant the hypothetical god existing, doesn't that also grant the "sort" of god it is as well? Maybe not?

2) Well, your "being" and god's "being" are tied up at the most fundamental level of your "being-Rob".

You're married. Something tells me that knowing things about your spouse and the nature of your relationship matters to you, and it probably helps guide your decision-making (maybe not, assuming a lot here, but you seem like the kind of guy who would care about those things).

If the most fundamental part of "being-Rob" is some kind of a relationship with god's "being", then maybe it matters in a way similar to your marriage?

Ignorant · November 14, 2016 at 4:51 pm

(November 14, 2016 at 4:39 pm)robvalue Wrote: If the creator still exists and has any interest in this creation, I may well be dependent on it not screwing with me or shutting the whole thing off. I doubt anything I could possibly do would be of any relevance to it.

An important thing to consider further down the line.

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · (This post was last modified: November 14, 2016 at 6:17 pm by Edwardo Piet.)

Ignorant... I answered your question... I don't understand your reaction where you just bolded my follow up question and talked about how things had gone in the thread instead of addressing it.

1. I said I would play along and I did.

2. Are you satisfied with my answer?

3. Are you going to answer my follow up question?

Angrboda · November 14, 2016 at 9:35 pm

(November 14, 2016 at 4:50 pm)Ignorant Wrote:
(November 14, 2016 at 4:34 pm)robvalue Wrote: Ignorant: Well no, we haven't established I'm dependent on it for anything. You're making a lot of assumptions there. You're using your own ideas of what a creator represents. [1]

But even if I am, so what? [2]

1) Ha! I though that was the idea? When you grant the hypothetical god existing, doesn't that also grant the "sort" of god it is as well? Maybe not?

Not at all. I was a Hindu before becoming an atheist. What reason would I have for presuming the creator is like your god rather than mine? This points to a major problem with Christianity in that it is founded upon a book that has multiple flaws. Why would I assume its putative author had anything to do with creation?

~~Edwardo Piet~~ · November 14, 2016 at 9:39 pm

I remember when you were a Hindu.

You were the smartest theist I'd ever met.

**Whateverist** · November 14, 2016 at 11:48 pm

(November 14, 2016 at 4:18 pm)Ignorant Wrote:
(November 14, 2016 at 2:28 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Yeah I guess I'd care to know it .. as you say .. at least in the sense of wanting to know truly how things stand.

I think what everyone is reacting to is the idea that we'd want to behave in ways prescribed by the bible if it were known a creator god were real. [1] You haven't specified what if any link there might be between a creator God's existence and the degree to which any of the Christian mythology being its accurate reflection. [2]

But if we go down the road of what if everything your lot believes is a exactly right what would we do? Let's just say we'd cross that river when we get to it. It's no where in sight now. Whether one would comply with any 'commandments' when one is free to do otherwise is still an open question. [3]

1) Ya I get that. I don't think we are anywhere close to making mutual sense out of those sorts of claims.

2) That is correct. I have yet to do this. The question as posed, however, leaves room for a lot of "playing along" on the part of the atheist. "Why should I care?" is basically asking, "Supposing what you say about god is true, what difference would it make for me?" Edward John went straight for the eternal jugular, and told you that the difference is that you go to hell. I'm opting for a different approach.

And you won't be able to. There is no possible basis for establishing xtianity as the brand of creator god in question, at least not short of producing god itself (provided he is willing to back your play).

I don't think you appreciate just how little most of us really care about all this talk of the 'supernatural'. While we all have an interest in knowing what is true, none of us has any obligation to invest our precious but limited time seeking to vouchsafe every strange claim some lunatic swears to. And no I don't care a wit that hundreds of people claim to have witnessed miracles.

**The Grand Nudger** · November 15, 2016 at 12:27 am

(November 14, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Ignorant Wrote:
(November 14, 2016 at 1:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Is it entirely beyond the pale that people who don't believe what you believe might hear the things you say differently than you do. That some things you think are innocent assumptions or usages would be, correctly and identifiably, bullshit digs to them?

I do say so.

Now, imo, you seem like the kind of guy who wants to set a different tone, have a different type of conversation. You're going to have to be aware of things like this to accomplish that.

Will it work both ways?

Not with me, no. I'm not interested in setting a different tone. I'm very much aware of how I come across, and it's completely intentional.

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