(November 15, 2016 at 1:44 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 12:58 pm)Edward John Wrote: Define what a god is? SERIOUSLY!

Yes. Seriously. Define what a god is.

Where did it come from? What's it made out of? How does it function? What are its origins? What environment does it inhabit? What does it feed off? How does it sense and act? What can it do? How? What can't it do? How not?

He does not need a cause because God is God.

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(November 15, 2016 at 2:46 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 7:44 am)Edward John Wrote: ·        God is the best explanation of the beginning of the universe.

God explains nothing, you may as well have said it was magic. An explanation involves explaining things not stating that that's the reason and there is no reason to look further.

Quote:·        God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.

The universe is not fine tuned for intelligent life.

Quote:·        God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties in the world.

Morals are subjective.

Quote:·        God is the best explanation of the historical facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth and God can be personally known and experienced.

You must be fucking kidding right! there is no evidence that a jesus ever existed and certainly none that a magic man performed amazing feats.

Quote:·        Something can't from Nothing. How did the planets form when the Big Bang explosion all of a sudden happen? After all, you don’t see round objects form when something blows up.

Things can come from nothing but there is always the possibility that there was something prior to the big bang quantum foam or something. Svience isn't finished yet.

Quote:·        Eternal Universe? That doesn’t work because the second law of thermodynamics states that the universe is running out of usable energy and if you doubt this, look in the mirror (you’re aging and running down just like everything else). 

Have you heard of the heat death of the  universe. The steaar phase of the universe is a very short part of the universal life story. So much for fine tuning for life.

Quote:·        Life can't from Non-Life. There is no evidence whatsoever.

I has done at least once. AI also turned some chemicals into life earlier by eating them.

Quote:·        Order can't come from chaos. Something exploded and we’ll all here.

Yes it can.

That is because you're not being logical.  Step one. Demonstrate that your atheistic opinion is a proper representation of reality.

What an enlightening answer

Screw it, I'm putting this rainbow shitting unicorn on ignore before I start getting seizures.

(November 15, 2016 at 3:34 pm)Edward John Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 1:44 pm)Mathilda Wrote: Yes. Seriously. Define what a god is.

He does not need a cause because God is God.

Special pleading is a fallacious argument.

(November 15, 2016 at 3:34 pm)Edward John Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 2:46 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: God explains nothing, you may as well have said it was magic. An explanation involves explaining things not stating that that's the reason and there is no reason to look further.

The universe is not fine tuned for intelligent life.

Morals are subjective.

You must be fucking kidding right! there is no evidence that a jesus ever existed and certainly none that a magic man performed amazing feats.

Things can come from nothing but there is always the possibility that there was something prior to the big bang quantum foam or something. Svience isn't finished yet.

Have you heard of the heat death of the  universe. The steaar phase of the universe is a very short part of the universal life story. So much for fine tuning for life.

I has done at least once. AI also turned some chemicals into life earlier by eating them.

Yes it can.

That is because you're not being logical.  Step one. Demonstrate that your atheistic opinion is a proper representation of reality.

Yet you do not explain why downbeat is not being logical. You just dismiss it out of hand. Step one. Acknowledge that science has evidence contrary to your position.

(November 15, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Screw it, I'm putting this rainbow shitting unicorn on ignore before I start getting seizures.

I was trying to match his font but it wasn't really working.

(November 15, 2016 at 4:02 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 3:51 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Screw it, I'm putting this rainbow shitting unicorn on ignore before I start getting seizures.

I was trying to match his font but it wasn't really working.

I did that once too.  I wouldn't mind if I found what he wrote of interest or at least witty.  But that isn't happening for me.

(November 15, 2016 at 7:44 am)Edward John Wrote: God is looking for people who will trust him, obey him and most importantly love him. Trust and faith are key components of love and he is looking for us to demonstrate these traits to the Lord.

Well, that's *definitely* not Me.  I can't trust a god that would allow a hell to exist.  Ever.  Can't love it, either, and will not obey such a rat-bastard.

(November 15, 2016 at 4:25 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 7:44 am)Edward John Wrote: God is looking for people who will trust him, obey him and most importantly love him. Trust and faith are key components of love and he is looking for us to demonstrate these traits to the Lord.

Well, that's *definitely* not Me.  I can't trust a god that would allow a hell to exist.  Ever.  Can't love it, either, and will not obey such a rat-bastard.

But your denial of God is an emotional reaction, not a logical one. We might imagine a disobedient child who is about to be punished by his father.  He might cover his eyes with his hands and say of his father, “You don’t exist!” but that would hardly be rational.

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(November 15, 2016 at 3:59 pm)Mathilda Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 3:34 pm)Edward John Wrote: He does not need a cause because God is God.

Special pleading is a fallacious argument.

(November 15, 2016 at 3:34 pm)Edward John Wrote: That is because you're not being logical.  Step one. Demonstrate that your atheistic opinion is a proper representation of reality.

Yet you do not explain why downbeat is not being logical. You just dismiss it out of hand. Step one. Acknowledge that science has evidence contrary to your position.

Again, all you are doing is offering your opinion. Why should any of us in here adopt your position, your opinion, as the best representation of reality? 

Well, please everyone, do you at all know that in every interaction among people with reason and intelligence, there is the parameter accepted and enforced by and among themselves, that there should be already in place concurrence on premises.

So, I am a theist and at present I propose that we all bring up babies to investigate what causes babies.

Once we concur on what causes babies, then we can go forth to resolve the issue God exists or not, of course we have to concur also and most importantly in regard to concepts, what is the information of the concept of God that is known to everyone - mind you, not that you accept the information to be true, but that you atheists know of the information: so no need to fear that with knowing the information you are already compromising yourselves with implicitly affirming the existence of God, in concept per my information: in concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

Okay, paging Astreja, what do you say about my two items above, enumerated below:

1. Will you concur with me that we must both you an atheist and I a theist accept that babies are caused to come to existence by their papas and mamas.

2. Will you concur with me that as you read what follows, you know of the information I am proffering to you, namely that my information of the concept of God is the following:

"In concept God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

Please, do not evade answering the two items above.

That is what I notice with atheists, they don't really attend to the issue God exists or not, they just keep on and on taking to evasion from the issue, though it takes great and keen examination to see into this tactics of atheists, namely: no connection at all to the issue, but all evasion from the issue, namely, God exists or not.

100% Proof Jesus existed.

Proof 1: The Shroud of Turin.



Proof 2: Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120) was considered the greatest historian of ancient Rome.

Quote: Wrote:He wrote of Nero who "punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus [Christ], the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originiated, but through the city of Rome also.

Quote: Wrote:Wikipedia Wrote:

Cornelius Tacitus (/ˈtæsᵻtəs/; Classical Latin: [ˈtakɪtʊs]; c. AD 56 – c. AD 120) was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire. The surviving portions of his two major works—the Annals and the Histories—examine the reigns of the Roman emperors Tiberius, Claudius, Nero, and those who reigned in the Year of the Four Emperors (AD 69). These two works span the history of the Roman Empire from the death of Augustus in AD 14 to the years of the First Jewish–Roman War in AD 70. There are substantial lacunae in the surviving texts, including a gap in the Annals that is four books long.

Also, Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian, (A.D. 38-100+) wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities, saying that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, that Jesus was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected.

Quote: Wrote:Wikipedia wrote:
Born Joseph ben Matityahu (Hebrew: יוסף בן מתתיהו, Yosef ben Matityahu; Greek: Ἰώσηπος Ματθίου), was a first-century Romano-Jewish scholar, historian and hagiographer, who was born in Jerusalem—then part of Roman Judea—to a father of priestly descent and a mother who claimed royal ancestry.

The existence of Jesus Christ is recorded not only by Josephus and Tacitus, but also by ancient writers such as Suetonius, Thallus, Pliny the Younger, and Lucian.


And from the Jewish Talmud, "we learn that Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, gathered disciples, made blasphemous claims about himself, and worked miracles, but these miracles are attributed to sorcery and not to God."
Thus, historians both favorable and unfavorable regarding Jesus did write about him. Also there were many historical writings about the early Christians.

Quote: Wrote:Wikipedia Wrote:

The Talmud (/ˈtɑːlmʊd, -məd, ˈtæl-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root LMD "teach, study") is a central text of Rabbinic Judaism. It is also traditionally referred to as Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, the "six orders", a reference to the six orders of the Mishnah. The term "Talmud" normally refers to the collection of writings named specifically the Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Bavli), although there is also an earlier collection known as the Jerusalem Talmud, or Palestinian Talmud[1] (Talmud Yerushalmi). When referring to post-biblical periods, namely those of the creation of the Talmud, the Talmudic academies and the Babylonian exilarchate, Jewish sources use the term "Babylonia" long after it had become obsolete in geopolitical terms.