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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 5:35 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 5:00 pm)Ignorant Wrote: (November 15, 2016 at 2:56 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: So, Ignorant, basically I'm saying I accept that I would value having knowledge of the truth of a god's existence inasmuch as I value truth for its own sake... so that's step one. What's step two?
Step two involves, supposing god exists, valuing the truth about god existing in relation to you.
In short (as I have tried to explain to Rob), god being what-it-is, your being-you is fundamentally related to god-being-god. Knowing the nature of that relationship is valuable because it tells you about who and what you are.
IF a deity of some type exists, fine. It is "out there" somewhere, maybe, who knows? When it proves to me that it exists, then your "in relation to" will have some merit. But until I have some valid proof of its existence, then I cannot have a relationship with something that doesn't exist.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 5:50 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 5:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So very transparent, Igno, lol. IDK, you tell -me-, is it best that you don;t waste my time, or do you have something to say that might make me, you know, care? That make make me change my assessment of the notion assuming it's truth? Isn;t that the point of this thread, or did you mistake it for a "does god exist" thread? You have plenty to say about that, obviously...but at what point will we get an answer to the OP Q? I can;t have made this any easier, look at where you sit with me.
I'm willing to grant that god exists, -and- that it's your god. You don't have to bore either of us with any of that. Now what...-so what-?
I don't have anything to tell you that you would care to hear.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 5:51 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 5:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
More likely anything that you care to be seen saying, lol. So we're at an impasse, and I have to ask...what was the point of all the foreplay if you never intend to answer the OP Q?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 5:53 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 5:35 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: IF a deity of some type exists, fine. It is "out there" somewhere, maybe, who knows? When it proves to me that it exists, then your "in relation to" will have some merit. But until I have some valid proof of its existence, then I cannot have a relationship with something that doesn't exist.
THANK GOD! SOMEONE GAVE ME A CONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE!
Seriously though, clearly, god must exist for anyone to care about it in the way being asked here. Thanks.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 5:54 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 5:51 pm)Rhythm Wrote: More likely anything that you care to be seen saying, lol. So we're at an impasse, and I have to ask...what was the point of all the foreplay if you never intend to answer the OP Q?
Don't misunderstand me. I think I have things that OTHERS might care to hear, but I'm fairly certain that YOU won't care to hear anything I have to say. I'm trying to save your IQ and time.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 5:55 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 5:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
How would you know, being so very cagey about whatever it is, lol. You a mind reader?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 6:02 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 5:30 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: (November 15, 2016 at 5:00 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Step two involves, supposing god exists, valuing the truth about god existing in relation to you.
In short (as I have tried to explain to Rob), god being what-it-is, your being-you is fundamentally related to god-being-god. Knowing the nature of that relationship is valuable because it tells you about who and what you are.
So would it be a fair paraphrasing of what you're saying if I said that step 1 is knowing god exists and step 2 is knowing what god means to me?
Sadly no. Step 2 is knowing the natural relation between you and god. The nature of that relationship will either be meaningful for you or not. You might value it in a way similar to your relationship with oxygen. You might value it in a way similar to your relationship with other people. Knowing the manner in which being-you relates to being-god will determine the meaning it has for you.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 6:03 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 5:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: How would you know, being so very cagey about whatever it is, lol. You a mind reader?
I'm dumb. You're not.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 6:07 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 6:07 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 15, 2016 at 6:02 pm)Ignorant Wrote: (November 15, 2016 at 5:30 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: So would it be a fair paraphrasing of what you're saying if I said that step 1 is knowing god exists and step 2 is knowing what god means to me?
Sadly no. Step 2 is knowing the natural relation between you and god. The nature of that relationship will either be meaningful for you or not. You might value it in a way similar to your relationship with oxygen. You might value it in a way similar to your relationship with other people. Knowing the manner in which being-you relates to being-god will determine the meaning it has for you.
Okay so step 1 I must know that God exists step 2 I must know the manner in which God relates to me and that will determine the meaning it has for me. Correct?
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 6:09 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 6:07 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: (November 15, 2016 at 6:02 pm)Ignorant Wrote: Sadly no. Step 2 is knowing the natural relation between you and god. The nature of that relationship will either be meaningful for you or not. You might value it in a way similar to your relationship with oxygen. You might value it in a way similar to your relationship with other people. Knowing the manner in which being-you relates to being-god will determine the meaning it has for you.
Okay so step 1 I must know that God exists step 2 I must know the manner in which God relates to me and that will determine the meaning it has for me. Correct?
Ya, that is pretty much it.
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