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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:16 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2016 at 12:16 pm by TaraJo.)
Christian voters have never been the most consistent. My inlaws are a perfect example. They're all (as far as I know) big time conservatives and they certainly seem to identify as part of the religious right. My sister in law, specifically, is a big Trump fan. This is despite the fact that she is literally in a sham marriage specifically to help an undocumented immigrant get his greencard. Seems that not only are they horribly hipocritical, but they don't even realize when they're voting against their own best interests.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto
"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:23 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2016 at 12:27 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@Bella and Cath
Borders exist regardless of whether or not we allow more immigrants or fewer immigrants to cross them, and regardless of whether we make it easier or more difficult to cross them, and regardless of how well or how poorly we treat immigrants once they -have- crossed them.
The very concept of immigration is insensible without reference to borders in the first place. Immigrating to where, emigrating from where?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:25 pm
(November 16, 2016 at 12:04 pm)Faith No More Wrote: My point is that Christians are perfectly happy to throw a biblical fit over gay marriage,
I haven't said a word against the SC decisions on gay marriage. I'm fine accepting what our secular government decides.
Quote:but when it comes to helping the poor they have no problem with a "take it or leave it" stance on what the bible says. The point being that you're a hypocrite.
I think the best position is that Jesus' teachings on charity apply to the individual, rather than to governments. But even so, am I a hypocrite? Yes, in some ways. That's why I need a savior.
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:25 pm
(November 16, 2016 at 12:23 pm)Rhythm Wrote: @Bella and Cath
Borders exist regardless of whether or not we allow more immigrants or fewer immigrants to cross them, and regardless of whether we make it easier or more difficult to cross them, and regardless of how well or how poorly we treat immigrants once they -have- crossed them.
That's why I asked the questions:
(November 16, 2016 at 12:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: FNM, just to be clear, you do believe there should be a regulation with people from other countries moving here, right? You just don't think it should be as strict as Neo think it should be?
...Or are you saying there should be no limit or regulation whatsoever?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:26 pm
(November 16, 2016 at 12:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: FNM, just to be clear, you do believe there should be a regulation with people from other countries moving here, right? You just don't think it should be as strict as Neo think it should be?
...Or are you saying there should be no limit or regulation whatsoever?
Of course I'm not saying there should be no regulation. I'm saying that the path to legal citizenship is too difficult for certain people that we have a moral obligation to help and that being an illegal immigrant is not a reason to just abandon them.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:29 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2016 at 12:32 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(November 16, 2016 at 12:26 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (November 16, 2016 at 12:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: FNM, just to be clear, you do believe there should be a regulation with people from other countries moving here, right? You just don't think it should be as strict as Neo think it should be?
...Or are you saying there should be no limit or regulation whatsoever?
Of course I'm not saying there should be no regulation. I'm saying that the path to legal citizenship is too difficult for certain people that we have a moral obligation to help and that being an illegal immigrant is not a reason to just abandon them.
Ok, thanks for answering.
So you think...
1. it should be easier to get in, but there should still be regulations/limitations
2. we shouldn't abandon people who come in here, or are staying here, illegally
Can you explain what you mean by #2? I assume it doesn't mean you don't think anyone should ever get deported ever.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2016 at 12:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If moral obligations don't compel, or one disagree on what those obligations are...we have both an economic dependency and incentive to welcome immigrants and stop treating them like subhumans. We also have reasons not to treat -them- the way we do because we accidentally treat ourselves that way. Which is a sad, sad fallback, but if nothing else works, fuck it.
I want to put this in the clearest terms possible. The entire immigration debate is based on fantasy. That they're criminals, that they're takers, that we look out for them before we look out for our own..... that they produce shitty quality work, ffs. That immigration and illegals weaken our people, weaken our country, or make our borders nonexistent. That they are the source of our woes. That they, are a "they".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:41 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2016 at 12:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
There's got to be a better reason to deport someone than "they committed the crime of being here". Which is all we're talking about when we talk about deporting illegals, on account of them being illegal. Hell, the reason theyre here illegally is because they didn't have a job or money, full stop....and ofc that's exactly what they're here to get in the first place..a job, money. There's their crime. That's what -makes- them illegals.
Makes me real proud to be an american. 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:42 pm
(November 16, 2016 at 12:41 pm)Rhythm Wrote: There's got to be a better reason to deport someone than "they committed the crime of being here". Which is all we're talking about when we talk about deporting illegals, on account of them being illegal.
Why?
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RE: Trump on 60 Minutes
November 16, 2016 at 12:43 pm
(This post was last modified: November 16, 2016 at 12:44 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(November 16, 2016 at 12:41 pm)Rhythm Wrote: There's got to be a better reason to deport someone than "they committed the crime of being here". Which is all we're talking about when we talk about deporting illegals, on account of them being illegal.
Ok, I'm going to ask you a very clear question. So as long as someone is able to get here, they should stay... even if they get here illegally. Is that what you're saying?
...So the dude who traspassed the border yesterday should be allowed to stay, so long as he hasn't committed any other crime in the 24 hours he's been here?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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