Trump on 60 Minutes

[TaraJo]

Christian voters have never been the most consistent. My inlaws are a perfect example. They're all (as far as I know) big time conservatives and they certainly seem to identify as part of the religious right. My sister in law, specifically, is a big Trump fan. This is despite the fact that she is literally in a sham marriage specifically to help an undocumented immigrant get his greencard. Seems that not only are they horribly hipocritical, but they don't even realize when they're voting against their own best interests.

[The Grand Nudger]

@Bella and Cath

Borders exist regardless of whether or not we allow more immigrants or fewer immigrants to cross them, and regardless of whether we make it easier or more difficult to cross them, and regardless of how well or how poorly we treat immigrants once they -have- crossed them.

The very concept of immigration is insensible without reference to borders in the first place. Immigrating to where, emigrating from where?

[John V]

My point is that Christians are perfectly happy to throw a biblical fit over gay marriage,

I haven't said a word against the SC decisions on gay marriage. I'm fine accepting what our secular government decides.

but when it comes to helping the poor they have no problem with a "take it or leave it" stance on what the bible says.  The point being that you're a hypocrite.

I think the best position is that Jesus' teachings on charity apply to the individual, rather than to governments. But even so, am I a hypocrite? Yes, in some ways. That's why I need a savior.

[Catholic_Lady]

@Bella and Cath

Borders exist regardless of whether or not we allow more immigrants or fewer immigrants to cross them, and regardless of whether we make it easier or more difficult to cross them, and regardless of how well or how poorly we treat immigrants once they -have- crossed them.

That's why I asked the questions:

FNM, just to be clear, you do believe there should be a regulation with people from other countries moving here, right? You just don't think it should be as strict as Neo think it should be? 

...Or are you saying there should be no limit or regulation whatsoever?

[Faith No More]

FNM, just to be clear, you do believe there should be a regulation with people from other countries moving here, right? You just don't think it should be as strict as Neo think it should be?

...Or are you saying there should be no limit or regulation whatsoever?

Of course I'm not saying there should be no regulation. I'm saying that the path to legal citizenship is too difficult for certain people that we have a moral obligation to help and that being an illegal immigrant is not a reason to just abandon them.

[Catholic_Lady]

FNM, just to be clear, you do believe there should be a regulation with people from other countries moving here, right? You just don't think it should be as strict as Neo think it should be?

...Or are you saying there should be no limit or regulation whatsoever?

Of course I'm not saying there should be no regulation.  I'm saying that the path to legal citizenship is too difficult for certain people that we have a moral obligation to help and that being an illegal immigrant is not a reason to just abandon them.

Ok, thanks for answering. 

So you think... 

1. it should be easier to get in, but there should still be regulations/limitations

2. we shouldn't abandon people who come in here, or are staying here, illegally

Can you explain what you mean by #2? I assume it doesn't mean you don't think anyone should ever get deported ever.

[The Grand Nudger]

If moral obligations don't compel, or one disagree on what those obligations are...we have both an economic dependency and incentive to welcome immigrants and stop treating them like subhumans.  We also have reasons not to treat -them- the way we do because we accidentally treat ourselves that way. Which is a sad, sad fallback, but if nothing else works, fuck it.

I want to put this in the clearest terms possible. The entire immigration debate is based on fantasy. That they're criminals, that they're takers, that we look out for them before we look out for our own..... that they produce shitty quality work, ffs. That immigration and illegals weaken our people, weaken our country, or make our borders nonexistent. That they are the source of our woes. That they, are a "they".

[The Grand Nudger]

There's got to be a better reason to deport someone than "they committed the crime of being here".  Which is all we're talking about when we talk about deporting illegals, on account of them being illegal.  Hell, the reason theyre here illegally is because they didn't have a job or money, full stop....and ofc that's exactly what they're here to get in the first place..a job, money.  There's their crime.  That's what -makes- them illegals.

Makes me real proud to be an american. 

[John V]

There's got to be a better reason to deport someone than "they committed the crime of being here".  Which is all we're talking about when we talk about deporting illegals, on account of them being illegal.

Why?

[Catholic_Lady]

There's got to be a better reason to deport someone than "they committed the crime of being here".  Which is all we're talking about when we talk about deporting illegals, on account of them being illegal.

Ok, I'm going to ask you a very clear question. So as long as someone is able to get here, they should stay... even if they get here illegally. Is that what you're saying?  

...So the dude who traspassed the border yesterday should be allowed to stay, so long as he hasn't committed any other crime in the 24 hours he's been here?