So, this thread was prompted by a comment in another thread.

For the purposes of the discussion, I have provided my definitions as follows:

Tax Planning: Structuring tax affairs in such a way as to gain a tax advantage, where that advantage is explicitly allowed/encouraged by law. This is legal.

Tax Avoidance: Structuring tax affairs in such a way as to gain a tax advantage where that advantage exploits a loophole or complex structure that exists for the primary purpose of avoiding taxation, that is against the intention of the law, but not explicitly forbidden. This is legal.

Tax Evasion: Structuring tax affairs in such a way to gain a tax advantage that is explicitly forbidden by law, or by simply failing to comply with the law altogether. This is illegal.

So, tax avoidance - legal, but is it moral?

Can you tell us what the loop holes or complex structures are?

Wonder if my financial advisor/broker considers himself amoral. We talk every Dec about reducing my tax exposure.

I don't see why it's immoral, personally. Ask yourself the same question - if you found out you were paying more taxes than you need to, would you stop and limit yourself to only what was needed? Or would you continue to pay the extra taxes? I would limit myself to only what I legally needed to pay in taxes, rather than extra.

What I DO think is immoral is not giving to charity or giving back to the community in any personal way. Everyone should be doing this to a certain extent, if they can afford to. Especially the rich.

(November 17, 2016 at 9:49 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Can you tell us what the loop holes or complex structures are?

Wonder if my financial advisor/broker considers himself amoral. We talk every Dec about reducing my tax exposure.

An example of a failed UK tax avoidance scheme (not a great site, but it explains the mechanics of the scheme well enough):

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ibtim...rc-1448258

A country runs largely on taxes. It can be immoral to try to avoid this, if you're very rich. Nobody needs to be a billionairre to live comfortably, and feed their family. Also we should have learned in the last century that the economy flourishes when you have higher taxes on the rich.

Of course there's also the idea that poorer people really shouldn't have to pay much, if any, in taxes, because they're struggling enough as it is.

IMO there's a difference between using standard deductions to reduce your tax liability, and using loopholes that were designed for situations that do not match yours, but can be exploited.

So I would say tax avoidance isn't moral. You're actively abusing the system for your own gain.

Taxes are a necessary "evil" that aren't really all that evil. We pay them so that society keeps running; they help pay for public services, they help keep us safe.

My property tax bill is around 3X my federal tax. There are no deductions, write offs, considerations, rebates, spliffs, nothing. I pay it or I lose the farm and my livelihood.

I'd like to see the whole country be taxed at that level of unmitigatable certitude.

(November 17, 2016 at 10:33 am)ukatheist Wrote:

(November 17, 2016 at 9:49 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Can you tell us what the loop holes or complex structures are?

Wonder if my financial advisor/broker considers himself amoral. We talk every Dec about reducing my tax exposure.

An example of a failed UK tax avoidance scheme (not a great site, but it explains the mechanics of the scheme well enough):

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ibtim...rc-1448258

That's a scheme. I consider that as bad as any other "scheme" to avoid taxes.

(November 17, 2016 at 11:24 am)vorlon13 Wrote: My property tax bill is around 3X my federal tax.  There are no deductions, write offs, considerations, rebates, spliffs, nothing.  I pay it or I lose the farm and my livelihood.

I'd like to see the whole country be taxed at that level of unmitigatable certitude.

I'd love to see churches taxed that way!

I guess I don't see tax-law compliance as an issue with much of a moral dimension.