(November 17, 2016 at 12:17 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

(November 17, 2016 at 12:03 pm)Rhythm Wrote: HA! Ok great. Here is why god and its relation to you is significant: God is what everyone wants,

No. "What everyone wants" is Schopenhauern Will.

And, unlike God, it's mindless



In all seriousness... are you saying what everyone wants is God in their life or are you saying the definition of "God" is "whatever everyone happens to want"?

The latter is closer, but not quite it. Everyone wants goodness, and god is goodness-itself. In particular things, we want what is good about them. What is good about them is the particular way in which they participate in goodness itself.

Oh lol I thought I'd quoted Ignorant, Lmao.

(November 17, 2016 at 12:25 pm)Ignorant Wrote:

(November 17, 2016 at 12:17 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: No. "What everyone wants" is Schopenhauern Will.

And, unlike God, it's mindless



In all seriousness... are you saying what everyone wants is God in their life or are you saying the definition of "God" is "whatever everyone happens to want"?

The latter is closer, but not quite it. Everyone wants goodness, and god is goodness-itself. In particular things, we want what is good about them. What is good about them is the particular way in which they participate in goodness itself.

So is the definition of "God" "intrinsic goodness" to you?

(November 17, 2016 at 11:58 am)robvalue Wrote: Okay, we're getting somewhere. You hear God's voice? You hear an actual voice? Is it words? [1]

It's pretty bizarre comparing the relationship I have with my wife to the relationship I have with tautologically being myself. [2] I listen to her because she's an actual distinct person with an intelligence and feelings. I care about her, and I can't read her mind. [3] I haven't a clue how I would listen to tautologies, or why I would want to even if I could. It makes no sense.

1) No, it is not an actual voice. I used scare quotes because that is the language we us to describe it, especially in Christian theology (God SPOKE things into existence, Jesus is the WORD made flesh, etc.). It is more or less a poetic description of experiencing reality while being mindful of the relation between god and everything else. If god is active in the being of everything, then his actions "communicate" things about god and the things.

2) But being-yourself fundamentally means relating-to-god, because you can't be-anything-at-all without that relation. You ARE a relation between yourself and god. Part of being-Rob IS a relation with your wife.

3) Maybe it is the same with god?

(November 17, 2016 at 12:27 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

(November 17, 2016 at 12:25 pm)Ignorant Wrote: The latter is closer, but not quite it. Everyone wants goodness, and god is goodness-itself. In particular things, we want what is good about them. What is good about them is the particular way in which they participate in goodness itself.

So is the definition of "God" "intrinsic goodness" to you?

No. God is the goodness in which things participate. The goodness of things will differ depending on the nature of that participation, which could be called a thing's "intrinsic goodness'. If that term is what you need to make sense of it, god is subsisting "intrinsic goodness"

I am relationship between myself and the rest of reality, and what is valuable to me (my own personal conceptualization of intrinsic goodness)... but why call it "God" if there is no separate mind besides my own? And why call it a "creator" if it itself is either reality or part of it rather than a creator if it?

Experiencing reality while being mindful of the relationship...

So, you're thinking about this relationship while you do stuff? And that makes you feel a certain way?

(November 17, 2016 at 12:41 pm)Ignorant Wrote:

(November 17, 2016 at 12:27 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: So is the definition of "God" "intrinsic goodness" to you?

No. God is the goodness in which things participate. The goodness of things will differ depending on the nature of that participation, which could be called a thing's "intrinsic goodness'. If that term is what you need to make sense of it, god is subsisting "intrinsic goodness"

Okay so, are you defining "God" as "the goodness in which things participate"? Are you labelling the goodness within anything with the word "God"?

Oh Good! Another insightful Rob value post!!

(March 11, 2015 at 7:28 am)robvalue Wrote: My stance has always been that it may be possible that some sort of intelligence created our universe/reality. Currently I see no reason to conclude that there is.

But if there is one:

1) We don't know if it still exists

Actually YOU and those like you don't know..

Quote:2) We have found no evidence of it within our universe/reality

Actually you will not accept the evidence provided nor will you follow the path to said evidence.

Quote:3) We have no current means to learn anything about things outside our universe/reality, if such a thing is even coherent

So the logical 'learn-ed' conclusion would be, nothing exists beyond our current ablity to comprehend it. That Sounds right..

Quote:My conclusion is that it is entirely irrelevant, unless new evidence emerges. In other words, it makes no practical difference to me if there is a creator.

and if evidence is provided then what? If you don't have nor will you consider a 'plan' if evidence is provided then one can rightfully conclude that you have closed your mind to anything you do not currently believe.

Quote:There's all these arguments trying to establish a generic creator, such as Kalam or intelligent design. Call the creator God if you want, we haven't learnt anything about it just by giving it a title. So if I let your arguments stand, and there is a creator, can you tell me what difference it should make to me?

You primary concern should not be of God but how you view yourself and how you intake and process fact/knowledge. If you can not address your deficiency there, then nothing you don't already think you know will ever have an impact on your day to day life.

After all there are literal people on this planet right now who live in a self imposed stone age and they like you can not/will not accept anything they do not already know.

Once you move past your cave man thinking then maybe we can have a rational discussion on what a creator God means.

Hey, you're here.  Sweet.  Can you tell me why I should beat a jew to death, because -I've- been a bad boy?  Other than him being jewish, ofc, that's a given.  

If there's a creator, and it's your creator, so what?