(November 22, 2016 at 12:41 pm)operator Wrote: However to claim there is honor in something like war is very bizarre to me. War is, unfortunately, necessary. But it is nothing to feel proud of.

People feel proud when they ace the test, when they get a raise at their McJob.  When they manage to have a child, just -have- one.  I think we can let soldiers claim a little bit of pride.

Quote:The propaganda pushed by the American military is so effective that some people are berated for even thinking of criticizing the military and/or its actions. You're seen as "Unamerican" for even considering that there is no honor in being a solider of for thinking that the war in the Middle East was a mistake. Its honestly sad but I refuse to placate the Amurrican idiots for the sake of not rocking the boat.

You know who criticizes the military and it's actions more actively than any other group?  The soldiers tasked with carrying it out.  Propaganda is effective, sure, bullets even moreso. They show up fresh faced, motivated, squared away, hooah! Few weeks deployed, and it;s all bittervets with opinions. He's alive, and the other guy isn't. That's a 1 in the "w" column. Right, wrong, propaganda, all irrelevant. In that moment there;s only that moment. How you got there, or whatever you believed before, whoever you were before, meaningless.

Is it honorable for the US to spare religious facilities in a war zone that the inhabitants thereof do not spare when they are civil warring amongst themselves ?


to clarify:

that our (in)actions disrespect their cultural values

(November 21, 2016 at 11:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Sure it's different.  Soldiers get payed.

So do assassins.

Assassins are decidedly more fictitious than soldiers, lol, but sure.  What's the problem?  We've all got mortgages to pay.

I lurv the undercover footage of spouses trying to hire hitmen to off their significant other.

And their fake reaction to being shown faked evidence the deed was done !!


For an entire movie with that theme:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086979/?ref_=nv_sr_1

(November 22, 2016 at 12:41 pm)operator Wrote: There is no honor in being in the military. This is American propaganda at it's finest.

Join the Army! Fight for your country! You'll be a hero! You'll be Army Strong! Go kill for your country! Defend your people! Fuck the other people! Live with honor! Integrity! Respect! Do what you're told! Be a good soldier!

The military is a necessary evil and part of me is thankful we have the strong defense force that we do. But let's not pretend like it is anything more than that.

The people who buy into the idea of honor in being a soldier is exactly the type of people Uncle Sam wants.

edit: With that being said I think it is absolutely terrible that there are young men and women who go over to the Middle East and come home with legs and arms blown off, or come home mentally scarred and traumatized from the things they've seen and done. It's very sad. And of course there are people who do not get to come home at all. I think it is all very terrible and I feel horrible for the families that have to go through this.

However to claim there is honor in something like war is very bizarre to me. War is, unfortunately, necessary. But it is nothing to feel proud of. The propaganda pushed by the American military is so effective that some people are berated for even thinking of criticizing the military and/or its actions. You're seen as "Unamerican" for even considering that there is no honor in being a solider of for thinking that the war in the Middle East was a mistake. Its honestly sad but I refuse to placate the Amurrican idiots for the sake of not rocking the boat.

I joined in 1969, when it was not very popular. I served with honor and retired with satisfaction. You might not agree, and that's why I served, so you could.

(November 22, 2016 at 2:06 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(November 21, 2016 at 11:58 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Sure it's different.  Soldiers get payed.

So do assassins.

I got $247/month, before deductions.

Brian served honorably and was discharged accordingly. And this was in the 80s so he had to keep his gay orientation secret to serve.

$800 a month when I joined, $2400 when I left.  The price of a human life. Good to have that question answered, amiright, don't wanna leave any mysteries, I'd hate to live my life wondering what that life was worth, in real terms, lol.

OTOH, it;s difficult to put a price on honor, respect, and full medical coverage.

(November 22, 2016 at 1:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: People feel proud when they ace the test, when they get a raise at their McJob.  When they manage to have a child, just -have- one.  I think we can let soldiers claim a little bit of pride.

People can claim whatever they like, it doesn't make it correct or sensible. If you feel pride for getting a raise at your McJob, you're a McMoron. Sure you can feel proud for surviving a threat on your life, that's your choice. What's your point?

(November 22, 2016 at 1:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You know who criticizes the military and it's actions more actively than any other group?  The soldiers tasked with carrying it out.  Propaganda is effective, sure, bullets even moreso.  They show up fresh faced, motivated, squared away, hooah!  Few weeks deployed, and it;s all bittervets with opinions.   He's alive, and the other guy isn't.  That's a 1 in the "w" column.   Right, wrong, propaganda, all irrelevant.  In that moment there;s only that moment.  How you got there, or whatever you believed before, whoever you were before, meaningless.

Bolded by me. Exactly. It's all meaningless. Including the pride. You survived a brush with death. You got lucky. There's nothing to be proud, or ashamed of. It is what it is.

I have survived threats on my life multiple times. I had a gun pointed to my head when I was thirteen years old. I've been shot at, I've had people try to stab me, I've been attacked by multiple people at once. I survived all that and more. Does that make me an honorable person? No. Should I feel proud because I defended myself in those situations? No. Should I feel ashamed? No. It is what is is. That shit is not important to me, it's just stuff that has happened in my life and I bring it up only to prove a point.... It's human nature to try and make what we do seem more important than it is. But it's all bullshit. There's nothing to be proud of in being a soldier.

Being a parent shouldn't make you proud. Being a good parent who supports their child with love, affection and appropriate discipline is something to be proud of. Treating those you love with dignity and respect is something to be proud of. Accomplishing personal goals that enrich and fulfill your life is something to be proud of.

Sure you can be proud for being a soldier, that's your choice I guess. It's not up to me to 'let' anyone be proud, that's their choice. Doesn't mean I have to see the logic behind it. The martyr complex (which is part of the conditioning) in some of these people is honestly ridiculous.