(November 21, 2016 at 4:45 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(November 21, 2016 at 1:49 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: No. It's a different man of wealth and taste.

He's going to be disappointed you didn't guess his name.

Woo hoo, woo hoo, woo hoo

(November 19, 2016 at 4:36 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: My question is about the motivation of the devil character in the bible.

The character is written as evil but torments people who are or have been evil.

If the devil is supposed to be evil why did the author give it this trait, which seems to conflict with its main drive?

Surely if the devil wanted to encourage evil acts then hell would be advertised as a super fun place with willing sexual partners of your choice and all the big macs you can eat

Is this inconsistency down to:

bad writing?
an oversight?

or what?

The Devil has bad PR, that's all.

That's it. God wrote this propaganda and still Satan comes out looking like the better being.

It's more reasonable to assume that the roles are reversed. Satan is the main character. He writes how evil he is for all to see, yet people defend him to the hilt. He is moral because morality comes from him.

Indeed ... God is the real devil in that book.

(November 21, 2016 at 2:14 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 21, 2016 at 10:40 am)Drich Wrote: Truth versus your understanding of it.

The devil is not the God of the underworld. He does not get points for steering people away from God. Satan is not a God at all, like the rest of Creation he is a servant/Has a role to perform.

And yet god of the underworld is exactly how he is portrayed isn't it! he is supposed to try and tempt people to the dark side even tryng it on god jr himself.

Satan is portrayed as the god of the underworld to those who create their own narrative outside of what is described in the bible. Look at the book of Job and the role he plays. Satan is only allowed to do what God allows him to do. Tempting Christ was apart of that plan. Does a god play by the plans of another? does a god knee or yield to another if so then they forgo the title of god. As a supreme being does what he wants not what another wills.

Those who ascribe satan the title of god of the underworld have gotten their theologies confused with that of other religions. Which seems to be the problem with the assumptions you make in the OP

(November 21, 2016 at 5:04 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(November 19, 2016 at 4:36 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Is this inconsistency down to:

bad writing?

Got it in one.  You have a character who knows God personally and directly.  He is so unimpressed by God that he decides to throw a monkey wrench in his plans.  We can assume that he knows that the end result of his rebellion against God is that he will be wiped from existence, so he is a fatalist.  Or... he doesn't know that God will kill him?  Or... he thinks that he can stand up to God and overcome him?

He certainly can't expect to reason things out with God if he'd read the Bible beforeha-- ohhhhhh...

Or, God is such an asshole that he'd rather be consigned to oblivion than spend another minute with Him. That is, Satan, knowing he'd fail and what the consequences would be, would still rather lose everything than have to spend eternity with Yahweh.

(November 21, 2016 at 2:14 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 21, 2016 at 10:40 am)Drich Wrote: Truth versus your understanding of it.

The devil is not the God of the underworld. He does not get points for steering people away from God. Satan is not a God at all, like the rest of Creation he is a servant/Has a role to perform.

And yet god of the underworld is exactly how he is portrayed isn't it! he is supposed to try and tempt people to the dark side even tryng it on god jr himself.

Man, if I didn't know better I'd say it almost looks like Christianity was cobbled together from multiple pagan religions, through centuries of assimilating cultures and creating hybridised belief systems in order to pacify the populace and ease the transition of acceptance, and that the modern Christianity we see today contains countless echoes of its true pagan origins.

BUT THAT WOULD BE CRAZY TALK.

(November 22, 2016 at 6:01 pm)Iroscato Wrote: Man, if I didn't know better I'd say it almost looks like Christianity was cobbled together from multiple pagan religions, through centuries of assimilating cultures and creating hybridised belief systems in order to pacify the populace and ease the transition of acceptance, and that the modern Christianity we see today contains countless echoes of its true pagan origins.

Yeah, but Drich is correct. The concept of hell is poorly conceived in the Bible and can be interpreted in a number of ways, but there is no place in the OT or NT where the devil is assigned a position of any sort. Revelation 20:7-10 tells a different story:

Quote:"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

If I'm not mistaken, it is either Dante's Inferno or Milton's Paradise Lost where the concept of hell as a place 'managed' by Satan and demons originated.

Yeah, pretty sure most of the devil's mythology is fan fic. (Of fan fic.) But religions are primarily oral myths. Whatever people believe, that's the deal. Whether or not it's supported by anything else is of secondary importance, to them at least.

I don't get how he can be so good at deception, yet people see him everywhere and see through his ploys immediately.