(January 12, 2017 at 2:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If there's no money shot it hardly matters what I would accept as evidence.  The moneyshot..in case you were unclear....is whatever evidence you possess, lol.  If you're having trouble figuring out what the word evidence means, the best way to resolve that is a dictionary, not asking the crowd.

To make this clear, for the gazillionth time:

This thread is not about me. It's about you.

I want to know what would it take for you to say, "YES that's it!"

What "evidence" or "proof" are you looking for? What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."....A scientific journal article? A scientific experiment?...What?

What could possibly persuade you to suddenly believe that God does exist?

No spinning this back on me. I'm asking YOU what YOU think.

If you want to ask me whatever evidence I possess, I'll start a different thread for that.

No ducking the question, saying, "the "onus" is on you to prove."

We're discussing what would it take for YOU to be convinced.

I've said it already, and I'll say it again. I don't know what sort of evidence you could show me to make the "god lightbulb" ding on in my head.

But any god that wants me to believe in his existence would certainly know what evidence it would take. I'm just waiting for that evidence to be presented.

(January 12, 2017 at 2:59 pm)Yadayadayada Wrote:

(January 12, 2017 at 2:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If there's no money shot it hardly matters what I would accept as evidence.  The moneyshot..in case you were unclear....is whatever evidence you possess, lol.  If you're having trouble figuring out what the word evidence means, the best way to resolve that is a dictionary, not asking the crowd.

To make this clear, for the gazillionth time:

This thread is not about me. It's about you.

If that were the case you;d just show me what you've got, since that's all I asked for.  Couldn;t have made it any easier, could I?  

Quote:I want to know what would it take for you to say, "YES that's it!"

How would I know, having never seen it?  Surely you don't think I'm a fortune teller?  I can only respond to what's presented.  

Quote:What "evidence" or "proof" are you looking for? What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."....A scientific journal article? A scientific experiment?...What?

What could possibly persuade you to suddenly believe that God does exist?

No spinning this back on me. I'm asking YOU what YOU think.

I think that I don't know the future, and I don't know whatever it is you have...since you won't tell anyone.  / shrugs

Quote:If you want to ask me whatever evidence I possess, I'll start a different thread for that.

Good idea, I'll have a looksie.  

Quote:No ducking the question, saying, "the "onus" is on you to prove."

I have doubts that we're going to be able to manage a serious conversation if you consider the burden of proof to be an issue of ducking the question.  The onus -is- on you, nothing about me changes that.  

Quote:We're discussing what would it take for YOU to be convinced.

Fine, lemme check the 8-ball.

Hmn, says "ask again later"...I can only presume it's referring to that thread you'll be creating.

(hey gigglestick, it's your god, it's your claim, you do the work, hell, ask god to help...that outta speed it up, don't be a lazy shit)

(January 12, 2017 at 2:56 pm)robvalue Wrote: Sure, it's a simple question, but that doesn't stop it being incoherent. God can mean anything.

I'm always amazed at people who would rather play silly games than define their own concept. Seriously, if you're not prepared to even describe what you're talking about, you're wasting everyone's time.

Again, you don't seem to be getting it, do you?

You are the one who identifies as an atheist/agnostic. Why are you asking ME to describe what gods YOU do not believe in?

Quote:If it's really that difficult, maybe you should consider why that is.

No, YOU should consider why that is. You are the one who finds the simplest question "difficult".

(January 12, 2017 at 2:59 pm)Yadayadayada Wrote: What could possibly persuade you to suddenly believe that God does exist?

Okay, I'll bite... NOTHING!
Well, unless you count knowing that God exists as a form of belief.

How would I know that such a being exists?
You need to define it... for now, let's assume it's simply an extra-universal non-corporeal entity with the capability to generate matter in whatever density and configuration it so desires, and is so advanced that it can generate said matter in such a way that its future behavior is completely predetermined. Let's assume also that this entity set things up so as to generate human beings who were then capable of intelligent thought... maybe even similar beings in other worlds all throughout the Universe.
Somehow, humans came up with the concept of that god and some believe it describes an actual real entity. And, according to your christian detailing of the deity, this deity is compassionate towards these humans. Seems to want only good things for them, but, looking at how things actually are, he's not doing much about it... anyway, what would take me to accept that such an entity actually exists?

I suppose that the first humans who came up with the concept of god would have gotten it from the source, somehow... so I'd expect said god to extend the courtesy to everyone else on this planet.
Considering that it can manipulate matter at will, I'm sure it would be able to conjure up some physical manifestation of itself, one for each of us humans... multiple times through our lifetimes, so we could have a chat with such an awesome and caring being.

Has such a thing ever happened in recorded history? NO!
Does it happen nowadays? NO!
Is it expected to happen anytime in the future? NO!

If there is a creator god, it is indistinguishable from a non-existing one, as far as we can tell, nowadays.
If that creator god is a compassionate one towards mankind, then it is failing at employing its abilities to help humans achieve the best possible world for themselves.... remaining indistinguishable from a non-existing one.
Given all this, we are faced with the seeming non-existence of the god you wish to evidence... or a god with similar characteristics.

My answer is simple.  Demonstrate to me that magic is real and we'll have something to talk about then.  You say you believe in the "Biblical God".  That doesn't really tell me much, but I assume it to mean that you believe how the Bible describes him.  I have found that the New Testament is generally more universally accepted than the Old Testament, so we'll limit it to just the NT.  And it doesn't get any more "Christian" that the words of Jesus the Christ (Christ was a title, not a last name), so we'll limited it just to the things he spoke directly.  This is taken from Mark 16

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

So, "those who believe" not only can, but WILL heal the sick.  Jesus says these signs WILL accompany those who believe.  Not that they might.  Not "Well, through the power of prayer....God's will....faith of a grain of mustard see....if...."  THESE SIGNS WILL accompany those who believe.  Show me ONE person who fits that description.  All I need is the evidence Jesus says I WILL have.

Shit, I'll bite too I guess. Give me an example of a miracle that has been explicitly linked to the supernatural while accounting for all possible natural explanations, for a start.

(January 12, 2017 at 3:09 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(January 12, 2017 at 2:59 pm)Yadayadayada Wrote: To make this clear, for the gazillionth time:

This thread is not about me. It's about you.

If that were the case you;d just show me what you've got, since that's all I asked for.  Couldn;t have made it any easier, could I?  

Quote:I want to know what would it take for you to say, "YES that's it!"

How would I know, having never seen it?  Surely you don't think I'm a fortune teller?  I can only respond to what's presented.  

Quote:What "evidence" or "proof" are you looking for? What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."....A scientific journal article? A scientific experiment?...What?

What could possibly persuade you to suddenly believe that God does exist?

No spinning this back on me. I'm asking YOU what YOU think.

I think that I don't know the future, and I don't know whatever it is you have...since you won't tell anyone.  / shrugs

Quote:If you want to ask me whatever evidence I possess, I'll start a different thread for that.

Good idea, I'll have a looksie.  

Quote:No ducking the question, saying, "the "onus" is on you to prove."

I have doubts that we're going to be able to manage a serious conversation if you consider the burden of proof to be an issue of ducking the question.  The onus -is- on you, nothing about me changes that.  

Quote:We're discussing what would it take for YOU to be convinced.

Fine, lemme check the 8-ball.

Hmn, says "ask again later"...I can only presume it's referring to that thread you'll be creating.

(hey gigglestick, it's your god, it's your claim, you do the work, hell,  ask god to help...that outta speed it up, don't be a lazy shit)

Once again, this thread is not about me. It's about you. That means you answering the question that has been asked. Which, despite all of your verbiage, you still haven't managed to do.

"you;d just show me what you've got, since that's all I asked for"

And all I asked for was for you to answer the question. You have the audacity to come to my thread, post this wall of vacuous garbage that completely dodges the question asked, then expect me to oblige in answering yours? Funny.

"I have doubts that we're going to be able to manage a serious conversation if you consider the burden of proof to be an issue of ducking the question.  The onus -is- on you, nothing about me changes that."

No, the onus is on YOU because it is my question that you are here to answer.

I also have doubts that we're going to be able to manage a serious conversation since you struggle to comprehend how the question-and-answer concept works, so from now on your posts will be ignored. Trolls are a waste of my time.

Ooh boy the irony.

(January 12, 2017 at 3:30 pm)pocaracas Wrote: If there is a creator god, it is indistinguishable from a non-existing one, as far as we can tell, nowadays.

Really?! You honestly believe that a God capable of creating the vast universe and everything in it, including billions of galaxies, red hypergiants like VY Canis Majoris, and of course, all life on earth, would be indistinguishable from something or someone that is entirely non-existent?

Does that sound logical to you?