(January 12, 2017 at 11:07 am)Orochi Wrote: 1.As for the concept of earning death. death cannot be earned it's not a currency nor is life a currency we have the right to spend

You took the phrase too literally.

Quote:2.Another purpose of prison is keeping the dangerous in a place they can live without harming anyone else

Ted Bundy. Also, they can't harm anyone else if they're dead. If they are very likely to re-offend if they escape or some naive judge lets them out down the line, I say kill them now. If you think people don't escape from prison or that it's unlikely, you might want to look into that a little more.

Quote:3. Life alone is THE point

They're not alone. It's extraordinarily rare for people to have an actually solitary life in prison. Jesse Pomeroy springs to mind, but he too "earned" it, and is another good example of why the death penalty is a good option. He got out, reoffended, and it resulted in the death of a little girl. Granted, that was a long time ago. The only difference I see is murderers now get higher counts.

Quote:4. Lack of remorse is not a justification

Yes, it is. It's part of how we conduct sentencing in the United States. It absolutely has always been, under our judiciary system, one of the main factors in determining how long/what kind of a sentence a convict gets.

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Who gives a shit if they forfeit it? We're talking about the worst of the worst. I won't waste any time protecting them from anything. I put that right on my list of things I don't give a fuck about.

(January 12, 2017 at 3:46 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(January 12, 2017 at 11:07 am)Orochi Wrote: 1.As for the concept of earning death. death cannot be earned it's not a currency nor is life a currency we have the right to spend

You took the phrase too literally.

Quote:2.Another purpose of prison is keeping the dangerous in a place they can live without harming anyone else

Ted Bundy. Also, they can't harm anyone else if they're dead. If they are very likely to re-offend if they escape or some naive judge lets them out down the line, I say kill them now. If you think people don't escape from prison or that it's unlikely, you might want to look into that a little more.

Quote:3. Life alone is THE point

They're not alone. It's extraordinarily rare for people to have an actually solitary life in prison. Jesse Pomeroy springs to mind, but he too "earned" it, and is another good example of why the death penalty is a good option. He got out, reoffended, and it resulted in the death of a little girl. Granted, that was a long time ago. The only difference I see is murderers now get higher counts.

Quote:4. Lack of remorse is not a justification

Yes, it is. It's part of how we conduct sentencing in the United States. It absolutely has always been, under our judiciary system, one of the main factors in determining how long/what kind of a sentence a convict gets.

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Who gives a shit if they forfeit it? We're talking about the worst of the worst. I won't waste any time protecting them from anything. I put that right on my list of things I don't give a fuck about.

Ted Bundy actually escaped from a Colorado jail where he was being held for trial for crimes he committed in that state. He obtained a hack saw from a fellow inmate and cut an opening in the drywall large enough for him to squeeze through and escape. He got hold of prison guard clothing and escaped undetected until much later. By the time his jailers found out he was long gone. He went to Florida, and it was there that he broke into a girls sorority house and bludgeoned some college girls to death with a crowbar, or some kind of club, while they slept. Afterward he kidnapped a teen girl and raped and murdered her. So, yeah, they can escape and start their crime sprees all over again.

Might be nice to have some of that execution money to spend on building better prisons then..you know, where the walls are more substantial.  Drywall, lol, really?

(January 12, 2017 at 5:24 pm)A Theist Wrote: Ted Bundy actually escaped from a Colorado jail where he was being held for trial for crimes he committed in that state. He obtained a hack saw from a fellow inmate and cut an opening in the drywall large enough for him to squeeze through and escape.

Yeah, back in '77, '78 - I'm not entirely sure which year it has been, but security was a lot less tight than it is today. Also he hadn't been convicted then. So he was in pretrial custody, which again is a lot less tight than an actual maximal security prison. If I remember correctly, he escaped from a library, since they had to give him access to law literature.

Ted Bundy has escaped twice, but pretrial. He didn't escape from death row and I dare you to name even one instance of a death row inmate escaping in the last 4 or 5 decades. Name one escaping from Supermax, for that matter.

I know this sucks. Some will agree, some won't.

I don't find life "sacred". We are at the top of the food chain because of nature's law of the jungle.

A cow's life to me is on the same level of "arbitrary" importance as any humans, yet we eat "burger king" without battering and eyelid. As a non religious person, I don't buy into human life, or any life for that matter, being special, or sacred. In this respect, it becomes more practical to kill him.
We kill millions of "sacred" lives everyday as part of our carnivorous ways...
Our societal and moral ways is still an evolutionary mechanism for our species to prosper as a whole.
No god needed to guide us or show us right from wrong.

Anything and everything humans do is "natural". And it's only natural that society culls those who damage the herd.

(January 12, 2017 at 5:24 pm)A Theist Wrote: Ted Bundy actually escaped from a Colorado jail where he was being held for trial for crimes he committed in that state. He obtained a hack saw from a fellow inmate and cut an opening in the drywall large enough for him to squeeze through and escape. He got hold of prison guard clothing and escaped undetected until much later. By the time his jailers found out he was long gone. He went to Florida, and it was there that he broke into a girls sorority house and bludgeoned some college girls to death with a crowbar, or some kind of club, while they slept. Afterward he kidnapped a teen girl and raped and murdered her. So, yeah, they can escape and start their crime sprees all over again.

Thank you, that was indeed my point.

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(January 12, 2017 at 5:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Might be nice to have some of that execution money to spend on building better prisons then..you know, where the walls are more substantial.  Drywall, lol, really?

We could just make execution more cost effective. Plenty of ways to do it.

Still, I don't really care. I just can't bring myself to give one single, solitary fuck about this kid. I can't sympathize with him and I won't waste any of my limited empathy. They could leave him in a cell and let him starve to death and I wouldn't waste my breath protesting.

The state could make money, but that's a whole other twisted subject.

(January 12, 2017 at 5:57 pm)Shell B Wrote: We could just make execution more cost effective. Plenty of ways to do it.

I don't think so, particularly in that the cost is tied to the appeals process and we already execute the innocent.  

Quote:Still, I don't really care. I just can't bring myself to give one single, solitary fuck about this kid. I can't sympathize with him and I won't waste any of my limited empathy. They could leave him in a cell and let him starve to death and I wouldn't waste my breath protesting.

I don't care about that guy either, it's not for caring about him or sympathizing with him that I oppose the death penalty.

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(January 12, 2017 at 6:20 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: The state could make money, but that's a whole other twisted subject.

Sometimes I wonder why they don't.  Our "tough on crime" pro death penalty legislators say the dumbest shit when they're laying out how big their dicks are compared to the other guy, what would be more or less twisted about making a little coin off an execution...than the actual execution is? I wonder the same about the manner of execution. Why not let the father of the dead girl shoot the guy in the face? Vengeance satisfied, bad guy dead (might save a few pennies in the overall pool, too). Change in comparison, but it's something. Hell, we could charge admission, or maybe make the prospective executioner pay for the privlege. I hear they bury people to their necks and stone them, sometimes, in the middle east, in soccer stadiums. That has to be a hell of a way to sell popcorn.

(January 12, 2017 at 5:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Might be nice to have some of that execution money to spend on building better prisons then..you know, where the walls are more substantial.  Drywall, lol, really?

Much more complicated than that. That was the easy part. He planned the escape for weeks and lost about 30 pounds so he could squeeze into the tight crawl space between floors...

Quote: Fugitives poster
Back in jail in Glenwood Springs, Bundy ignored the advice of friends and legal advisors to stay put. The case against him, already weak at best, was deteriorating steadily as pretrial motions consistently resolved in his favor and significant bits of evidence were ruled inadmissible.[175] "A more rational defendant might have realized that he stood a good chance of acquittal, and that beating the murder charge in Colorado would probably have dissuaded other prosecutors ... with as little as a year and a half to serve on the DaRonch conviction, had Ted persevered, he could have been a free man."[176] Instead, Bundy assembled a new escape plan. He acquired a detailed floor plan of the jail and a hacksaw blade from other inmates, and accumulated $500 in cash, smuggled in over a six-month period, he later said, by visitors—Carole Ann Boone in particular.[177] During the evenings, while other prisoners were showering, he sawed a hole about one foot (0.30 m) square between the steel reinforcing bars in his cell's ceiling and, after losing 35 pounds (16 kg), was able to wriggle through it into the crawl space above.[178] In the weeks that followed he made a series of practice runs, exploring the space. Multiple reports from an informant of movement within the ceiling during the night were not investigated.[179]

By late 1977, Bundy's impending trial had become a cause célèbre in the small town of Aspen, and Bundy filed a motion for a change of venue to Denver.[180] On December 23 the Aspen trial judge granted the request—but to Colorado Springs, where juries had historically been hostile to murder suspects.[181] On the night of December 30, with most of the jail staff on Christmas break and nonviolent prisoners on furlough with their families,[182] Bundy piled books and files in his bed, covered them with a blanket to simulate his sleeping body, and climbed into the crawlspace. He broke through the ceiling into the apartment of the chief jailer—who was out for the evening with his wife[183]—changed into street clothes from the jailer's closet, and walked out the front door to freedom.[184]

After stealing a car, Bundy drove eastward out of Glenwood Springs, but the car soon broke down in the mountains on Interstate 70. A passing motorist gave him a ride into Vail, 60 miles (97 km) to the east. From there he caught a bus to Denver, where he boarded a flight to Chicago. In Glenwood Springs, the jail's skeleton crew did not discover the escape until noon on December 31, more than 17 hours later. By then Bundy was already in Chicago.

- Wikipedia

(January 12, 2017 at 6:56 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(January 12, 2017 at 5:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Might be nice to have some of that execution money to spend on building better prisons then..you know, where the walls are more substantial.  Drywall, lol, really?

Much more complicated than that. That was the easy part. He planned the escape for weeks and lost about 30 pounds so he could squeeze into the tight crawl space between floors...

So, If I'm getting this right, if we overfed our pretrial custody folks.....that would be a cheaper but equally effective way of preventing that sort of thing....that doesn't have any of the attendant issues of capital punishment? I have to ask, though, in all seriousness, how exactly would the death penalty have helped in bundy's case....before he was convicted?