(February 10, 2017 at 7:40 pm)Cecelia Wrote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/teac...613136a1af

Two other teachers also received letters of reprimand for talking about it in class.

I hope her union fights this, because I think this is plain ridiculous. At least the Go-Fund me will help her.  20-day suspension without pay for explaining to the college board why she rescinded her letter of recommendation?  Really?  And then two teachers got reprimands for talking about it in class?  Because it's being unfair to the student who decided to make a swastika in class?  What is WRONG with these people.

I think it's unfair that they're not letting the teacher express their opinion about the student.  If it's about a recomendation letter then surely the teacher should be able to express recomendation of their own free will.  Plus the teacher explained their reasoning behind it.

On the other hand though you seem to be expressing disbelief that it's possible to treat someone unfairly once they've made a swastica out of tape.

It seems like an over zealous punishment to try to prevent someone's education because they made a swastica with some tape while decorating.

It says they made a comment about Hitler too but doesn't say what was actually said which could make a difference.  They could be an actual national socialist and want to exterminate the Jews I suppose.  I'm thinking it's likely this person's just a teenager acting foolishly rebelious against political correctness.

Without knowing the intent behind the kid making the swastika (the article was pretty thin on this point), I have no way of telling if the punishment is deserved or not. If it was a Nazi swastika and the comments he made were anti-Semitic or pro Nazi, then definitely, pound the message home that bigotry isn't acceptable. It's not like Nazis ever had exclusive use of that symbol though.

Wikipedia Wrote:The swastika (also known outside the Indian subcontinent as the Hakenkreuz, gammadion cross, cross cramponnée, croix gammée, fylfot, or tetraskelion) (as a character 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious symbol originating from the Indian subcontinent, that generally takes the form of an equilateral cross with four legs each bent at 90 degrees.[1][2] It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and dates back at least 11,000 years.[3]

Source

(February 10, 2017 at 7:51 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: This is what happens from not wanting to hurt everybodies feelings. Now you can't even offend nazis. This is the bed made by the politically correct left and now they have to lay in it.

I love how you lot use that both ways without the faintest hint of irony.

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Also, I think it is worth mentioning that a recommendation letter comes with it an implied association on and with the one issuing the letter. I don't want to be associated with a kid that is moving on and promoting Nazism.

If I find out about that after I issued a letter of recommendation, I would issue an addendum at the very least.

(February 10, 2017 at 8:42 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Wouldn't whether the teacher was justified to withdrawal the recommendation depend on what the recommendation said?

If the letter said "the little tyke is a child prodigy in math", or "he shows every indication of running a marathon in under 2 hours", then the teacher would be amiss to withdraw the letter on account of the student making swastikas, and should receive some reprimand.

But if the letter said "the kid is an asset to the community and a beacon of upstanding morality", then perhaps the withdrawal is natural and the student had it coming.

Especially if it was a History teacher.

(February 10, 2017 at 9:02 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: Without knowing the intent behind the kid making the swastika (the article was pretty thin on this point), I have no way of telling if the punishment is deserved or not. If it was a Nazi swastika and the comments he made were anti-Semitic or pro Nazi, then definitely, pound the message home that bigotry isn't acceptable. It's not like Nazis ever had exclusive use of that symbol though.

Wikipedia Wrote:The swastika (also known outside the Indian subcontinent as the Hakenkreuz, gammadion cross, cross cramponnée, croix gammée, fylfot, or tetraskelion) (as a character 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious symbol originating from the Indian subcontinent, that generally takes the form of an equilateral cross with four legs each bent at 90 degrees.[1][2] It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and dates back at least 11,000 years.[3]

Source

LOL..it was a nazi swastika....cmon......... 

Guys, a letter of recommendation is where the recommendor extends their reputation on behalf of the recommended.

You have no right to someone elses reputation.

How backwards this matter is. Perhaps the teacher feels the student has misrepresented themselves - is not fraud usually a good enough reason for retraction? And even then, why should a reason be necessary?

Any institution would be alarmed to receive a letter of recommendation that would not have been granted now and would probably dismiss it outright.

I feel like there's overreaction from many angles on this story.

First things first, can't we just acknowledge that 17 year olds do stupid stuff? When I was in HS we used to do trollish things all the time, in good taste and bad. Most often, we would do offensive things not because we meant what we said but to provoke a reaction of out of people for laughs. We had a tremendous amount of Jewish students at my HS and they would be the ones making holocaust jokes, that's what teenagers do, they offend, they like to break taboos and appear edgy.

So we have this 17 year old make a swastika out of tape? From what we know (which isn't much) to me it sounds like a teen being a dumb troll, not someone who is an actual Nazi, the police determined it wasn't a hate crime. Did he deserve discipline? Yes. Does he deserve to have his future potentially derailed for being an ass? No. And that's the power of rescinding a recommendation letter like this, so I disagree with the teacher who did that.

If I were the teacher, I'd have considered the school discipline punishment enough and moved on. Ideally, that student in 4 years time will be graduating university and be far more mature than he was in his "tape swastika" days and cringe whenever that memory comes up again. On the other hand I think the school is overreacting by punishing the teacher, they were well within their rights to rescind the letter, so why punish the teacher?

I see screw ups on all sides here.

Wonder what would have happened if he put up a cross?

(February 10, 2017 at 9:19 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(February 10, 2017 at 7:51 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: This is what happens from not wanting to hurt everybodies feelings. Now you can't even offend nazis. This is the bed made by the politically correct left and now they have to lay in it.

I love how you lot use that both ways without the faintest hint of irony.  

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Also, I think it is worth mentioning that a recommendation letter comes with it an implied association on and with the one issuing the letter. I don't want to be associated with a kid that is moving on and promoting Nazism.

If I find out about that after I issued a letter of recommendation, I would issue an addendum at the very least.

Not sure who you mean by 'you lot.' I don't think I fit very well in any sort of political group. Regardless of mine or anybody else's political opinions, the left has been the one who has been promoting protecting everybodies feelings for the last decade and change. I find it funny that now nazis are complaining about hurt feelings. Fuck your feelings. Fuck people for being nazis. The teacher is 100% correct. She's under no obligation to write a letter of recommendation for a nazi or a communist or anyone else. Since when are we not allowed to be prejudiced against bad ideas?

(February 11, 2017 at 6:03 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Not sure who you mean by 'you lot.' I don't think I fit very well in any sort of political group. Regardless of mine or anybody else's political opinions, the left has been the one who has been promoting protecting everybodies feelings for the last decade and change. I find it funny that now nazis are complaining about hurt feelings. Fuck your feelings. Fuck people for being nazis. The teacher is 100% correct. She's under no obligation to write a letter of recommendation for a nazi or a communist or anyone else. Since when are we not allowed to be prejudiced against bad ideas?

This is what the left has been saying all along, though. It's not that you "can't hurt anyone's feelings," it's that if you do say stupid shit, you can expect a response from people. If you put a swastika up or dox a transexual student at a rally, you can bet people are going to have a vehement response to that. You can't have it both ways. Where people get it fucked up is that they translate "I won't stand for this quietly" to "you can't say those things." No, you can say them. I'm just going to tell you why you're wrong.

We agree that the teacher is 100% correct in not wanting to be associated or place her reputation on the line for a kid that thinks it's okay to troll people with swastikas. Maybe it's just immaturity, maybe he's a real neo-nazi, maybe he actually doesn't know what he's doing. Fine. But I still am not required to be associated with it.