(April 4, 2017 at 12:34 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(April 4, 2017 at 12:15 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Yep... still doesn't address what he had said, but only the straw man in your head.

I'm only reading his responses because his density amuses me.

I'm not the one who buys into a book making all sorts of scientifically absurd claims. I am not the one who is quoting a book that has infanticide and genocide as the believer wants you to buy as being moral and good. I'd call that dense. No, your book does not amuse me because like Muslims and Jews your beliefs guide all of you to fight each other and to clamor for the political favoritism of government and that conflict does not a muse me one bit. I am glad you find religious bigotry and violence amusing. I don't find it amusing.

(April 4, 2017 at 1:56 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(April 3, 2017 at 1:51 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Mostly, biblical trash-talk. In later chapters the Amalekites still exist, so in the end not everyone was actually killed.

So the bible is unreliable then!

No.  Trump is unreliable.  The bible is fucking bullshit.

(April 3, 2017 at 1:51 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Mostly, biblical trash-talk. In later chapters the Amalekites still exist, so in the end not everyone was actually killed.

And the Krays loved their mum. All that murder and violence is trash talk.

I would not because I would be a hypocrite. That is because I failed to obey things that are apparently good to me and help his creation, and disobeyed him in things that harmful to me and his servants, so it would be a false show of obedience to obey him in that one command.

If however I lived in a life of complete submission to him and for long period of time didn't disobey him in small and big deeds, I would obey him in everything he commands me including killing an innocent if I knew for certain he commanded me to do that.

(April 4, 2017 at 7:10 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I would not because I would be a hypocrite. That is because I failed to obey things that are apparently good to me and help his creation, and disobeyed him in things that harmful to me and his servants, so it would be a false show of obedience to obey him in that one command.

If however I lived in a life of complete submission to him and for long period of time didn't disobey him in small and big deeds, I would obey him in everything he commands me including killing an innocent if I knew for certain he commanded me to do that.

This is the problem with every religion, Mystic, seriously, you have the same problem that Christians and Jews have. It is not your duty to be a hero to our species. It is Not CLs or Roadrunner's duty to be heros either. It is OUR duty as species to be non violent and cooperate to find solutions to help our fellow human. But the bullshit idea of " sacrifice" in religious terms is worship of the club, blood rivalry, not compassion for everyone. It is not your job to "help his creation", it is our species job to stop assuming who started it all and worry about how to cooperate without fighting.

Hero worship is why Muslims and Jews and Christians cant stop murdering each other needlessly.

(April 5, 2017 at 6:55 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 4, 2017 at 7:10 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I would not because I would be a hypocrite. That is because I failed to obey things that are apparently good to me and help his creation, and disobeyed him in things that harmful to me and his servants, so it would be a false show of obedience to obey him in that one command.

If however I lived in a life of complete submission to him and for long period of time didn't disobey him in small and big deeds, I would obey him in everything he commands me including killing an innocent if I knew for certain he commanded me to do that.

This is the problem with every religion, Mystic, seriously, you have the same problem that Christians and Jews have. It is not your duty to be a hero to our species. It is Not CLs or Roadrunner's duty to be heros either. It is OUR duty as species to be non violent and cooperate to find solutions to help our fellow human. But the bullshit idea of " sacrifice" in religious terms is worship of the club, blood rivalry, not compassion for everyone. It is not your job to "help his creation", it is our species job to stop assuming who started it all and worry about how to cooperate without fighting.

Hero worship is why Muslims and Jews and Christians cant stop murdering each other needlessly.

I still don't understand why sharing the same species designation means I'm obligated to 8 billion other folks.  Seems arbitrary.

(April 4, 2017 at 9:52 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(April 4, 2017 at 7:37 am)Brian37 Wrote: This is the problem with every religion, you cant even get members to agree how to view the writings....Both you and CL cant agree on interpretation, just like our two Muslims here Mystic Night and Atlas cant agree on how to interpret the Koran. How is it you think you are not doing the same thing other religions are doing, having their internal conflicts about interpretation?

In all fields of knowledge there are broad areas of agreement and hotly contested areas of debate. That is true of biology, of archaeology, history, linguistics, economics,...the list is endless. For you to the single out religion merely demonstrates the shallowness of your thinking.

It depends a lot on denomination, too. Mainstream Protestantism is Sola Scriptura, while Catholicism is not. Obviously we are going to disagree on some biblical interpretations, especially in the Old Testament where there is blur between what is historically factual and what is written allegorically. The most important part, however, are all the things we do agree on as Christians - that Jesus is the Son of God who came and performed miracles, and taught us about God and His Law, died, and rose from the dead.  

And to clarify, I did not say Abraham's story is purely allegorical. I believe he was a real man, a Jew who was very religious, wise, and close to God, and underwent some sort of great test of faith and loyalty at some point in his life. I would guess that the way it was described was greatly embellished though, as with probably all OT stories in my opinion. It doesn't mean I don't think they have certain merit though or that all the people are completely made up.   

As for what I said on my last post, "Christianity defines itself by the New Testament - The Gospels, the teachings of Christ." That line actually came from a Catholic guest speaker I heard once when I was in Catholic Student Association in college. It was part of his response to someone in the audience who asked a snarky question about some horrible line from the OT, in an attempt to discredit the Christian message. Don't remember exact details though. But it does go to show the different approaches in Christian circles.

---

(April 3, 2017 at 1:04 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(April 3, 2017 at 12:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: ...killing an innocent person goes against Natural Law. Meaning it goes against the way our world works, because that is how God created our world to work. Thus we have an inherent understanding that directly killing an innocent person is wrong.

Exactly that. At the same time, The OP's hypothetical is that you believe the person is 100% innocent. As fallen creatures, we must admit to our own limitations - there is no 100% and so while you may believe the person is innocent isn't it also possible that you are not in command of all the facts and must trust that God's judgment is just?

You make a good point. But it wouldn't change my answer. In Catholicism we are taught that it's only ok to directly kill someone if it is the only way we can stop them from hurting us or someone else. Or in specific scenarios in a just war. 

Nonetheless, walking up to someone and just killing them without another life being in some sort of imminent danger because of that person, goes against my religious beliefs as well. I don't believe God would ever ask me to do that, and if He did, everything I believe about Him/reality would fall apart.

(April 3, 2017 at 5:05 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(April 1, 2017 at 11:13 am)Drich Wrote: Here's the thing sport.

God told us not to follow any new or direct revelations if the contradict how we are told to live in the bible.

If God told one of us to kill someone period apart from what the rule of law is willing t support, then what that person is talking to is not God.

And yet the Bible is ripe with instances of god telling people to kill someone who's innocent. So it's not the Bible that tells you you're not talking to god, but your own human conscience and secular laws.

Do you have an example of where any Christian is commanded by God to kill anything? If not then why the stacked/unfair comparison?

(April 5, 2017 at 2:29 pm)Drich Wrote: Do you have an example of where any Christian is commanded by God to kill anything?

Would you accept examples of God commanding Jews to kill?

(April 5, 2017 at 12:04 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The most important part, however, are all the things we do agree on as Christians - that Jesus is the Son of God who came and performed miracles, and taught us about God and His Law, died, and rose from the dead.  

I have some questions and don't mean to be hostile with them.
1. Do Jehova Witnesses count as Christians per your understanding?
2. Why is a particular towards the religion of Christianity the most important, why are things like belief in God, the command to love, knowledge of the self as it relates to God, the various levels and forms of light as it descends, things found in many religions not more important? I say this, because, I would say things humanity mostly have agreed upon in their answer as to why we are here and how we should relate to God, ourselves, and those around us, is more important than what doctrinally separates us....