It's impossible to know ourselves without knowing God. Ignorance of God is also ignorance of who we are.

You are a reflective person Drich, and that is a virtue no matter how much people downplay it in these times. I hope it leads you to the guidance of God through the Guide of the time.

(April 19, 2017 at 12:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's impossible to know ourselves without knowing God.  Ignorance of God is also ignorance of who we are.

You are a reflective person Drich, and that is a virtue no matter how much people downplay it in these times. I hope it leads you to the guidance of God through the Guide of the time.

You're so full of shit.

It comes with being a theist, Harry.

(April 19, 2017 at 12:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's impossible to know ourselves without knowing God.  Ignorance of God is also ignorance of who we are.

You are a reflective person Drich, and that is a virtue no matter how much people downplay it in these times. I hope it leads you to the guidance of God through the Guide of the time.

I know myself very well.

And all without an imaginary friend.

(April 19, 2017 at 2:50 pm)Minimalist Wrote: It comes with being a theist, Harry.

You're an atheist harry.

Good story, Drich.
I like that you reconciled with your dad.
It's a hard thing to do (making the first move) and I wish I'd done it before my dad died.
I'm glad that your trucks are selling.

(April 19, 2017 at 7:57 am)Harry Nevis Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 3:23 pm)Drich Wrote: Here's the question you should ask... If you had an incomplete idea of God (no matter where it came from) why would God support it? because if God supported a bad idea of him then you would think that bad version of God to be accurate. Rather God sets a standard of Himself and we must A/S/K to find it when we do, we find God. God genuinely shows up. You will know it is God because he brings understand that you truly have no knowledge of. It can be like being uploaded 'kung fu' on the matrix.

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Where would we get this "incomplete" idea of god?  Where else?  The bible and his followers. 

Actually no.
Believe it or not not all religions used the bible as a strict guideline to what they doctrinally follow.

As I've pointed out in the past if a doctrine is a patch work compilation of cherry pick 1/2 verses then it's not a biblical precept it is not a bible based/fonded doctrine. it gives a false idea about God. How ever when a precept or revelation is found all in one chapter or even if there is a whole book dedicated to it. Then that is a sound doctrine and gives a solid picture of God.

Specific example a couple weeks back we were talking about original sin and I asked for book chapter and verse that sets fourth/defines this doctrine. I got a list of literally verse scraps. meaning verses of scripture that were cut in half so as to change what the verse originally intended in order for that doctrine to be validated.

So then if you go before God with this bad doctrine under your wing and start worshiping God through this doctrine (and He does not want this) Then why would he reachout to you through your bad doctrine?

Rather the oppsite according to Christ is set to happen. God sends the winds and rains to all of us. to test our faith our doctrines. To make you lean n them in a time of need to help you see if what you believe/Your version of God is legit. When you blast though a trial and get nothing... that means your foundation is bad/You did not build you faith/belief on an accurate picture of Christ.

Quote:And how many different (dare I say incomplete) ideas of your god are floated around by those who have done the A/S/K? a pantload.

None that are not tested by us and by God. Again here with the A/S/K 'pant load' we look to see if it is a contextual teaching. It is fond in luke 11 right after the Lord's prayer, and contextually takes up the rest of the chapter. So then it passes the exegetical test. The next test is brought on by God Himself. In that if you have a 1/2 ass version of God He will send the wind and rain to pummel that idea first. Then most likly in your contiued seeking and knocking you will indeed comes across some teaching the truth as it is laid out in the bible. when you do, simply plant your mustard seeds worth of faith in What the God of the bible tell you to do and you will literally be able to remove all doubt.

Now that said. Peple can find enough God/salvation in some of these other religions. But what I am talking about is so much more than just salvation. I am trying to share how to have a deep and meaningful relationship with God.

Quote:  How many have sincerely wanted to believe, but god didn't show up?  Plenty more.

  But how many would only do so/believe on thier specific terms? (God must be a catholic God must be a baptist ect) If God is neither why would he show up? would it not then cement in the believer's heart who say God must be baptist, if he showed up at a meeting?

Again why would God do that is that is the last thing He wants? God is not about religion, he is seeking personal relationships. why else pour out the holy Spirit in acts 2 inorder to directly commune with individuals, rather than having to go through a presit or anyone else?

Quote:If your god loves us so much

That's the thing sport, He doesn't. He loved the world to give His son/meaning everyone an equal chance at redemption, but for those who choose not to accept it, there is no love. God has already explained to us in the parable of the weeds.. that not all that 'grow in this field' belong to him. A great deal belong to satan. Do you really think God loves a child of satan/Someone He knows will never change? As He does someone who does indeed change?

Quote: it's pretty strange that he would ignore someone with an "incomplete" idea of him (after all, they must be acknowledging his existence) without setting them straight. 

Never heard of the rich young ruler?
In short this rich young man comes to Christ and pledges Himself to the cause and askes what must I do to have eternal life?? Jesus turns to Him and says sell everything you have, give it all to the poor and come and follow me. The rich young man simply turned and left because He could not do what Christ asked.

Now tell me this rich guy didn't have the wrong idea of Christ.. Now tell me Christ did not simply let the kid go because he did not follow what God instructed the boy to do.

We have been given one charge that is to Ask Seek and Knock till we find the Holy Spirit. Not A/S/K till God becomes what we are looking for. That is your idea of God. He is everything to everyone. If I were making up a god to worship that sounds like a pretty stable/safe platform to build a religion..

But what if it is deeper than that, and God is indeed a unique and set apart entity that has given us the command to find him? Would he then except anything less?

Quote: Doesn't seem to be really interested in how sincere someone feels,

Your right sincerity is not a big part of the equation, another big difference bewteen your version of god and the God of the bible. Albeit I firmly thing you can secure your salvation with sincereity/faith alone, as it says in scripture, but when it comes to relationship, you are required to dig deeper.

Quote:or the fact that any info on him is contradictory,

like what? what has religion told you that does not make sense?

Quote: but more like toeing the line on little details to see if you pass muster.  But I'm sure god has told you that I am wrong.  It sounds more like people rationalizing their emotional beliefs.

It's not about toeing the line either. It's simply about following 3 little commands Ask about God, Seek Him and keep doing so till you find Him.
If you can do this it will push you through all the false info you have adopted eventually. and help you start building a correct picture of God. Once you can see or rather once you properly understand who and what God is, Your eye and ears will be open. I'll promise you you see Him in things people do say and have been telling you. If you keep seeking then he will begin to reach out. This manifests in different ways depending on your gifts...

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(April 18, 2017 at 3:23 pm)Drich Wrote: It's not the reason why that is compelling, it's the fact that someone who lived 2000 years ago was sent forward to record what he saw, and it is proving out to be accurate.

It's like just because you know how a watch is made does not mean their isn't a watch maker.

Do you understand??

Knowing how God does something does not mean God isn't responsible. or in this case knowing why there are more natural disasters doesn't mean God did not have someone record what he saw and had him describe it the best he could.

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Quote:Yeah, because there are no other books from 2000 years ago describing what the authors saw. Please.

Maybe you oughta google the book of revelation. late first to early 2nd century is when we can date the oldest manuscripts. I think you are thinking about what has been said about the gospels.

Quote:No one who knows how a watch is made thinks there is no watchmaker.  That's just stupid.  I do understand.  It's just not what you want me to understand.  Because what you want me to understand makes no sense,

what doesn't make sense?

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(April 19, 2017 at 10:12 am)Faith No More Wrote: Good stuff happens - "It's proof of god!."

Bad stuff happens - "He's just testing me..."

Unfalsifiable claims FTW!

(Mental Note:  It's time to get my three year-old to give up his blankie.)

didn't really uderstand the test part huh?

That's ok God did make us all... "the same."

Im being tested, and in my OP I have called out how and when He will deliver me. Now if what I know is true/Sound, then he will deliver me from the test on those terms.

Like at the end of the OP I told you as soon as I started to write this thread out I got a phone call, that set a series of evens in motion that bought me more time and documented pledge to buy one of my trucks I needed to sell.

That is how I knew I needed to finish and keep this thread up dated.

I have argued till I've been blue in the face and I still don't think you all get it. How your faiths failed/why. So I was prompted to show you my own example of what God is sending the wind and rain to me.

Now again if what I know is correct God will come though as I predicted, and f not then I must look at the situation as outlined in the op and if it is doctrinally sound then I must try and rebuild what it was I thought I knew, if It was not doctrinally sound or if we were in sin or sin Got us to where we are then I must cut loose this idea and our house.

IDK seem falsifiable to me.

(April 19, 2017 at 12:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: It's impossible to know ourselves without knowing God.  Ignorance of God is also ignorance of who we are.

You are a reflective person Drich, and that is a virtue no matter how much people downplay it in these times. I hope it leads you to the guidance of God through the Guide of the time.

So, if you were born into a civilization that had never heard of abrahamic gods, you would be an idiot?

I think that would make your mother a genius. You on the other hand,................. well, there does not appear to be much hope.

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(April 19, 2017 at 3:53 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: I know myself very well.

And all without an imaginary friend.

I believe that you do have imaginary friends, you just understand that they are imaginary.

I'll be in my bunk getting friendly.

(April 19, 2017 at 12:51 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: First, let me echo the sentiments of your other well-wishers. I'm reminded of the inscription inside King Solomon's ring - "This too shall pass." The good times never last and bad times fade away. i was particularly touched by your reconciliation with your father.

Thanks, and reconciling was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Just kept the story of the unmerciful servant in my mind while having to deal with all the ins and outs. Just kept think How much more in sin I owe God.

Quote:Divine hiddenness is very difficult. It is the primary problem that lead me towards atheism in the past. Even after coming to faith, I cannot say that God in any direct way speaks to me or even provides much guidance. The clear guidance God gave to you in the past is a gift that I cannot say I have much enjoyed. The "soft, still voice" always seems too soft and too still. I have other reasons for my assurance in the workings of Providence. There are many ways to 'hear' God, not the least of which is the sometimes painful recognition of how much we rely upon His Grace.

It's a gift and tremendous responsibility. Just gotta keep in mind there is a duality to how we must approach. One is based on salvation and the how the gospel is taught/what it means to be saved. Then there is relationship/reward. I first learned of this duality when I was listening to the radio and this old school fire and brimstone guy was reading the bible and he read "and there will be those who enter heaven with little more than their scorced clothing..."

For me and my church experience at the time it was all about the gospel. we never really studied or moved past that. So I turned the page and began to read for myself past the salvation part. and found the dual nature of our salvation. Yes salvation is a faith based/sincerity excersice. However once we are 'saved' our purpose for salvation is to open a line with God. Some do this through groups/church, while others seek out n their own. Most have or try a combination of the two. Either way we always start with our works. God starts by giveing us tools to accomplish small tasks (Like reconciling with my dad) and as I knock out more and more of these things the tools become greater and greater, till the point You become the Tool being used by the Holy Spirit.

And you know it is not you... One of the time I was having it out with my dad, I started citing a series of events that changed the way he thought about God but told no one. I had no idea what I was tlking about but I just let the words flow. He broke down into mush, and I had words to build him back up. Not in a million years could I have ever been able to do that. Nor could I again.

Quote:That said, I think it a mistake to tangle up your commercial business with your inner spiritual life. You run the risk of falling into the trap of a prosperity gospel. Scripture tells us that the sun shines on the righteous and the wicked alike.

I would not have one without the other. But I can promise you I am not a prosperity name it claim it douche bag. Like now I can claim whatever I want and God just laughs and laughs... Rather the buiness is to be a reflection of how Christian merchants repersent God in the market place. Not only that how we treat our employees (they drive nicer cars or have bought nicer houses than we have) It's about knowing our place as stewards. I have one simple mission statement, honor (do not burry) anything God gives us. as such we have doubbled almost every year we've been in business. I truly wish I could share everything God has done for us, but again though it all we go to God with an open hand, meaning if he wants everything back then it is all His to take. This last few weeks (and just before I posted) I told my wife this maybe the end of a chapter meaning the end of ur business. She was fine with it. She has seen so much of God working through us and with us even though I have no idea what he may do (send us to africa) we are ready to go (especially now that we are getting use to living in a 5th wheel camper.)

Otherwise without God in the business how far do you think a mobile truck mechanic (what I started out with) would last Not only that It was an act of God we even started our own business.

This old jewish man from queens had an ice factory here in orlando, I never met the guy only saw him twice in passing ever never said a word. but I did work on his equipment, and out of the blue he comes up to me says "Something is telling me to support you in your own business" How much would it take for you to get started? I was just blown out of the water.. One minute I was putting on a water pump the next I'm being asked to come up with a dollar amount I think i said 50K, He said can you do it for 25K. I told Him I'd die trying. He laid down a 2 year payment schedual we paid him back in a year, and never look back. I have lived a life of these litter daily miricles. yes they can be explained away, that is not what makes them special. It is the daily weekly experience of the near impossible for the last 20 some years that makes all we see the hand of God.

Quote:I also found your step of examining your life for unrecognized sin very disturbing.

...Or it could be apart of Two Corinthians:13 This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”[a] 2 I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, 3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. 4 For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God’s power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God’s power we will live with him in our dealing with you.

5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7 Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong—not so that people will see that we have stood the test but so that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed. 8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 9 We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is that you may be fully restored. 10 This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority—the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.

Quote:This is the flip-side of the prosperity gospel heresy.

It is also (According to Paul in the above passage) a way to determine the origins and outcome of a test/trial.

The idea being (as paul says) if we are in Christ and we come into hardship, it is either because we are being tested or it is because we are dealing with a consequence of sin. So why not repent of said sin and past the test even if it means the loss of one's 'prosperity?'

Quote: The bible gives us no assurance that our lives will be easy and problem free.

No, but it does allow us access to God. It is one thing to go through a trial and know you have God on your side, and it is quite another to go though the wind and rain and God be silent.

I rarly if ever go through a trial in silence. I can only imagine this is the reason so many of our 'brothers' aren't our brothers anymore.

This key to my thread is the reason for me sharing this particular trail having to do with my business and my home. All that I have built with God over the years is a big deal even to most people. but what you fail to understand is it is not the money that I am worried about. It is the silence. Look at how the thread is titled, look at how much time I spend talking about the interaction I have with God and how I depend on it. Then look at ALL that will be lost, not just the spiritual but everything.

That is what is on the table not just 'prosperity'.

Quote: If anything believers should expect greater difficulties.

But not in silence. No where are we required do endure in silence. Silence is the product of just a few things. Lack of relationship, consequence of sin, trial.

Quote:Your problems are not a punishment for sin.

Punishment and consequence of sin are two very different things brother.
One can be forgiven of all sin and still not avoid consequence of sin.
for example the prodigal son upon his return was forgiven of all sin. Yet the consequences of his sin would remain. Meaning the fact that he took his 1/2 of his inheritance and spent it. Does not mean the father would be obligated to split the remaining son's inheartance down to 1/4 just because the wayward brother returned. Read the forgotten verse 31 in this story:31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”
Yes the son is 'saved'/apart of the family, but in the end has nothing because all that the father had for the lost son was spent. Which is a consequence of sin not punishment for it. As a result everything the father has left belongs to the son that stayed.

This is an example of the duality i was trying to explain earlier. Forgiveness and salvation costs nothing. But once we are saved we are (according to Jesus in the parables of the wise and foolish builder and Paul who say our houses/faith will be tested by fire 1 cor 13:13-15)

We can be save according to 1 cor 13, but what we build/our faith our understanding of God will be tested by fire, and we will enter heaven "Smoldering as if we just escaped flames." If our structures survive we will be rewarded greatly and if they do not then we will enter heaven with nothing.

If we can tap a direct relationship with God in this life (meaning have an accurate picture of Him one He can respond in kind with) then how much more will the reward be in Heaven? It's not enough for me to Go any more. I want to be able to have Jesus come over for many 'suppers' I want to be invited to the big house party there. I am looking for the great reward, not prosperity here. I only have because I faithfully honor what it is Ive been given. Thus I am given more.

Quote: That's just bad 700 Club theology. AIDS was not God's judgement on homosexuals nor was Hurricane Katrina vengeance on an unrighteous city. Until the New Jerusalem arrives we will live in a world corrupted by sin. When Paul says to rejoice in all things and that included the times of stress and great trouble, not just when things are going good.

Nevertheless, I will keep you in my prayers in the hope that the Holy Spirit will make His presence known to you in a powerful way.

Again I think you are confusing sin and salvation and sin and consequence. MASSIVE difference between the two. Remember the lost son was forgiven, however the consenquences of what he did bears out in what the Father tld the remaining son. "All that I have is yours." Sin was forgiven, but consenquences remained.

AIDS may not have been a sin judgment. as only death can pay for sin. But no one can dispute that the world wide impact AIDS had was the direct result of having sex outside God's prescribe methods. Sin and Salvation is a given for the saved. Sin and consenqunce is also a given. So while you may contract AIDS if you are having wild sex everynight and if you repent can be forgiven of said sin.. It does not mean the AIDS Will always just go away.

The reason I check myself for unresolved sin, is because one of the first things to God is our connection with the Holy Spirit. Now while we may still be saved, there is nothing written that says you will still be the recipient of God full measure of blessing. His primary blessing again his direct contact with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will not dwell in a sin filled heart.

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(April 19, 2017 at 8:06 pm)Little lunch Wrote: Good story, Drich.
I like that you reconciled with your dad.
It's a hard thing to do (making the first move) and I wish I'd done it before my dad died.
I'm glad that your trucks are selling.

Dad's are assholes.

The problem with Ass hole dad's is they have ass holier kids.

At some point most of us relive that broken relationship all over again, just this time from the other perspective.

Even if you let it go the first time, don't let it get by the second time.

(April 20, 2017 at 11:52 am)Drich Wrote: Now again if what I know is correct God will come though as I predicted, and f not then I must look at the situation as outlined in the op and if it is doctrinally sound then I must try and rebuild what it was I thought I knew, if It was not doctrinally sound or if we were in sin or sin Got us to where we are then I must cut loose this idea and our house.

IDK seem falsifiable to me.

The "IDK" is the key here.  You DON'T know. You BELIEVE.