(May 25, 2017 at 3:50 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(May 24, 2017 at 4:13 pm)alpha male Wrote: But if someone has a Y chromosome and a penis but feels like a woman, that's not just a feeling or a delusion, it's incontrovertible proof that the person is a woman.

I'm not saying all feelings are false, but feelings are not enough to declare that a god is real because then why not aliens, unicorns, fairies?

Feelings can be evidence for the person himself, but I agree with you that others don't have to accept them.

But I apply that consistently.

So that wasn't, at all, an accurate description of your relationship with the lord of creation, Lek? What a shocker.

(May 25, 2017 at 12:38 pm)Khemikal Wrote: So that wasn't, at all, an accurate description of your relationship with the lord of creation, Lek?  What a shocker.

I don't get what you're asking here. What wasn't an accurate description?

Was someone else describing their personal relationship with the divine, or have you developed sudden amnesia?

Your description..of your own personal revelation....does not match your own description of revelation, and had absolutely nothing to do with a god. Just some rando who reads the same book you do. It's common.

"God reveals shit to me, I have compelling personal experiences of the divine"
-Oh yeah, like what?
"Well, I had a question for god..and my neighbor Phil said..."
-......................................................................

um . . .


er . . .



It's striking me a little, Idunno, weird, we have a presumably male aspect of Jehovah, the Holy Spirit, conveying another male aspect of Jehovah, Jesus, unto the Virgin Mary's lady stuff.

Hmmmmm . . . . .

God's a cuck.   Some other guy has all the fun, and he gets stuck making the little bastards promises come true for the rest of eternity.

(May 25, 2017 at 12:17 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(May 25, 2017 at 3:50 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: I'm not saying all feelings are false, but feelings are not enough to declare that a god is real because then why not aliens, unicorns, fairies?

Feelings can be evidence for the person himself, but I agree with you that others don't have to accept them.

But I apply that consistently.

You're not. Like I said if you watch "Alien" and you get scared and start to feel that xenomorph is somewhere in the house are we to think that you apply your rule that it must exist because you feel it?
The truth is you rationalize it, because if you didn't you'd be locked up in a mental institution because you would not know what reality is or isn't. Just as people you mentioned earlier that feel they are different sex then their genitals - they don't go by feeling alone. They also rationalize it for some time and talk to doctors.
Now, the difference with religion is that it's simply bad rationalization. For starters your application is to what god exactly? Jesus? Would you be impressed if a pagan were to cite feelings in support of his belief in the gods of Mount Olympus? I don't think so because faith and feelings cannot adjudicate because it is not a reliable arbiter of reality. It cannot help one to differentiate truth from falsity.

So let me guess important people in a your life (probably parents) were the ones who introduced the god? Now you have strong emotional ties to both the magical being and the real live people who taught and encouraged the belief. And I get it: why should you trust some anonymous guy on the internet then your own parents? It seems perfectly logical. Aren't you supposed to be loyal to them?

But forget about me and think it this way: are loyalties becoming powerful obstacle for you to think freely and question the existence of a god? And also since they were talking to you about religion how thorough were they about the subject? Did they tell you that there are many thousands of gods who people have claimed to be real throughout history? Did they mention that there are thousands of religions active today and most of them make contradictory claims so many of them must be wrong? And what about the part that no religion has any strong evidence to back up its claims?
I mean you were maybe four-year-old when they told you about Jesus and what were you supposed to do, challenge the parent to a philosophical debate? And it's no surprise that virtually every believer believes in the same god that her or his parents believe in.

It's time for you to think about religion for yourself. That doesn't mean that you will betray your parents and it also doesn't mean that they intend to trick you into believing things that are not true. They were likely indoctrinated in the same way by their own parents. This chain of belief transfer from parent to child stretches back a long way but one should not have to feel bad or disloyal for breaking the chain.

(May 25, 2017 at 11:31 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Was someone else describing their personal relationship with the divine, or have you developed sudden amnesia?

Your description..of your own personal revelation....does not match your own description of revelation, and had absolutely nothing to do with a god.  Just some rando who reads the same book you do.  It's common.

"God reveals shit to me, I have compelling personal experiences of the divine"
-Oh yeah, like what?
"Well, I had a question for god..and my neighbor Phil said..."
-......................................................................

Okay you wanted me to tell you about God coming face to face to me and telling me in person instead of through a messenger. But if you don't believe that what happened to me was extraordinary then I conclude one of two things; either you didn't read everything I said or we're living on different planes.

(May 26, 2017 at 10:32 am)Lek Wrote:

(May 25, 2017 at 11:31 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Was someone else describing their personal relationship with the divine, or have you developed sudden amnesia?

Your description..of your own personal revelation....does not match your own description of revelation, and had absolutely nothing to do with a god.  Just some rando who reads the same book you do.  It's common.

"God reveals shit to me, I have compelling personal experiences of the divine"
-Oh yeah, like what?
"Well, I had a question for god..and my neighbor Phil said..."
-......................................................................

Okay you wanted me to tell you about God coming face to face to me and telling me in person instead of through a messenger.  But if you don't believe that what happened to me was extraordinary then I conclude one of two things; either you didn't read everything I said or we're living on different planes.

Face to face with god? Definitely on different somethings....

(May 26, 2017 at 10:32 am)Lek Wrote: Okay you wanted me to tell you about God coming face to face to me and telling me in person instead of through a messenger.

OFC I did...because that is how -you- described revelation - and I inquired about it's accuracy.  That a person demonstrates something to you, and has thus revealed something to you.  You claim personal experiences of the divine, revelations from god...but then tell us a story about personal experiences and revelations from your neighbor Phil.  

Praise Phil?

I think it would be interesting to talk to a person who's actually experienced a personal revelation, or at least believes that they qualitatively have. I can see why it would be completely compelling to them. What we always seem to get, instead, is some tongue in cheeck shit about a conversation a person had with a neighbor.

Quote: But if you don't believe that what happened to me was extraordinary then I conclude one of two things; either you didn't read everything I said or we're living on different planes.

Interesting conclusions.