[quote='Tizheruk' pid='1560382' dateline='1496113446']

Quote:Same as it helped take down slavers racists and other assorted scum . These idea's are deserving of shame . And shamed they will be .

Slavery and it's concomitant racism were taken down by shaming??? One of the most cherished traditions of southern white families was dismantled because people were getting their feelings hurt? Really? Wasn't there like a war or something that had a bit to do with that?

(May 29, 2017 at 2:32 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(May 28, 2017 at 4:54 am)Little Rik Wrote: No more changes about my beliefs since I discovered that God is within.
It didn't come all of a sudden like winning millions at Lottery.
The awareness came after a lot of hard work through yoga but if on top of that you also put the
NDEs experiences that confirm what I already believe then the reasons for a change become nil.  

I see, so if I have a solid belief, I need to be careful.
But if you have a solid belief, it's an "awareness". And you admit you latch onto things that only confirm your belief.

I actually do a lot of yoga, and I read and study the Tao. Neither makes me believe in magic. NDE's are still explained through natural experiences, as is the feeling that God is within.  But you go ahead with your admitted confirmation bias.  I'll go ahead with my truly open mind.

There are a lot of people who like you say.......I actually do a lot of yoga, and I read and study the Tao.........and they say they are getting nowhere.
It is bizarre that when I ask them.......tell me about your yoga.......they say.......oh I do exercise and read yoga books.
Sure that is part of yoga but the real yoga is meditation using a proper mantra, asanas (exercises), a veg. diet a code of conduct and other things.
All the rest is not yoga.
So when you will do all these things please come back to me and tell me whether your yoga works or not.  

(May 29, 2017 at 11:05 pm)Valyza1 Wrote: Well, I'm not sure that's an apt example, as I was never told fairies were real.  I was told, however, or at least hinted at, as a kid, that Superman's home planet Krypton was real, and that if I went there I could get super powers like him.  The idea was never ridiculed, though.  I just grew up and naturally learned more about the nature of space travel and the nature of fiction.   And that's pretty much the process for every idea that I outgrew.  There was never a point where I felt that being ridiculed helped me on my path to learning more about the world, other than learning that some people are dicks.  

Okay, sure, you were never shamed out of anything.........

Quote:What do you mean by "cannot see reason"?  Do you mean they only respond to emotional  stimulus? What is this "applicability of ridicule" you're speaking of?  Silencing people from saying irrational things?  Is a person who avoids passing a law they believe in just to avoid ridicule really the kind of person you want in congress?

Sure, particularly if the alternative is a person who -does- pass that law because he is -not- ashamed to do so.  

I actually think that public shaming works incredibly well on politicians.  None of them want to be the idiot that everyone's cracking jokes about.  Not good for their careers. Plenty of people, congressmen or otherwise, love to hate the gays. It's only the fact that society will no longer view their hatred as acceptable that keeps them from exposing themselves publicly. Think of the lengths a homophobe will go to in order to argue that they aren't a homophobe? That's shame, that's the applicability and effectiveness of ridicule. '

(May 30, 2017 at 12:32 am)JamieB Wrote: WTF ? Bobby's soul is exactly what god is looking for?  God knew Jamel couldn't be content with eternity in heaven?

No. Before bobby and Jamel God knew and placed two spirits in situations/lives that would give them the best chance to life to their potential.

Quote:And you say God put these souls in these boys knowing the choices they'd make.

Say bobby has the best chance in hearing God's call in a western setting, and Jamel has a better chance in a middle eastern setting. It doesn't mean God will step either through their whole lives. God is simply giving an invivisual plant what it needs for it's best chance of survival.

Quote: Well how about this analogy of your freewill idea:

It doesn't, but wait.. Free will is not taught in the bible, nor is it even mentioned. "Free Will" is a Greek construct later added by Converts who wanted to hold onto the philosophy.

Quote:God holds a gun to your head (pretend god is more compassionate than his eternity in hell plan).
God says " You are my beautiful child made in my image please come with me to paradise forever!" "Be my beautiful bride
or if you don't I will blow your brains out."  

What if things happens the other way? IDK for some reason I think of God as an exceedingly rich being. and upon learning of how rich he is one is more than willing to put aside and theological or political issues so that they/we may cash in. Especially since we know the answers to the entrance exam and how easy we've told ourselves God can be manipulated. Given the alternitive (once we know God is Real then Hell must also be a bigger than life real as well.) Who would choose Hell? who needs to be corhearsed into heaven once we all see the gates of Hell?

But here's the thing.. Eternity is a long time to serve someone something you hate no matter how Good the pay is. Which is what happened to Satan and his followers. So what is a deity to do, to show little dumb monkey people that they are not all basically good and infact most are monsters in their hearts (which is the determining factor as to whether or not they can indeed serve for eternity or not, and not just pledge false allegience because of all the stuff God has?)

God sets up a blind and puts the monkey people in it for a little while without the automatic or direct knowledge of Him.then simply says come follow me. Those who belong to God will do so, the rest will not.

Quote:So this is what your god is offering. As an adult I can see how screwed up that is. 

And again if you are wrong?

Quote:I was a born-again christian for many years with the one goal to be a pastors wife.

eeshe...

Quote:My aunt had a dream when I was 14 that I married a dark haired pastor. My parents had me meet with our pastors wife and because I give a shit about people I was sold on the idea.

did you?

Quote: I had this personal relationship with Jesus you christians talk about. All wrapped up with speaking in tongues, and being slain in the spirit yada yada yada. Well its all a load of crap.

Because what good is the gift of tongues if no one is there to translate? (rhetorical) as that is what Paul asks. Without a translator then the speaker only glorifies themselves, and it would be better for them to remain silent, rather than to disturb the worship of God.

Quote: Also a huge waste of time and thoughts. Im fine with people that want to believe in this god of the Bible if it makes them more at peace with death.

Are you stupid or something? How much easier is death when there is no accountability to a God who likes his rules? Meaning how much easier will it be to die with the idea that there is no God?

 

Quote:But I have a problem with Christians who think they can explain how their insane god picks and chooses people heaven and hell. It just proves your god is not worthy of love.

As a pastor's wife not a heavy bible reader huh?
Here's the thing sport..

Not everyone is of God. Ever heard the parable of the wheat and weeds/tares? Who are the tares? first what are tares? a tares is a cousin of wheat. it look just like wheat till it goes to seed, and instead of a golden brown seed you get a black one that is not eddible. Again which points back to what Jesus said about fruit. (how you identify a Christian verse a weed/tare) In the story God tell his servants to let them grow together and at the harvest separate them. lest we uproot the wheat when we pull the weeds.

Anyway as I was saying in the parable of mat 13 God plants a feild using the best seed, and that night his enmy came along and sowed tares alongside of the wheat. Which means in the field (The world) there are souls that belong to God and there are souls who do not. However God lets us grow together. Meaning we have all been given the same oppertunity to repent and atone for our sins.

So then how in your preacher wife's mind is that act of 'grace' an evil thing?

God, apparently, is a lemon to be squeezed, lol.  You do you buddy, cash in on that.   

Quote:How much easier is death when there is no accountability to a God who likes his rules? Meaning how much easier will it be to die with the idea that there is no God?

To you, it probably wouldn't be easier. Life and death in the absence of god, you've opined upon before, is a horrible proposition to you.

To me, it's no more or less easy regardless. It's not as if I get to choose whether or not to die in any case, or what happens to me after I die, if anything happens to me. I suppose a terrible person with latent theistic beliefs might find themselves dreading their death if god exists...and relieved if god doesn't...but? The sort of ludicrous rating of difficulty in death as regards the god proposition must have a necessarily limited subset of applicability, but for people who don;t believe, it;s a complete non issue that doesn't make death any more or less difficult.

You're simply projecting your own fears and doubts about what dreams may come onto others. You should know, by now, Drich....that you're not like other people. Your peculiarities are not theirs...lol...........

(May 30, 2017 at 10:25 am)Khemikal Wrote: God, apparently, is a lemon to be squeezed, lol.  You do you buddy, cash in on that.   

And much in the way that lemonade is sour, one must add sugar to make it more appealing.

God already knows what you're going to do, but he tells you you have free will anyways even though you can't do anything besides what he knows you will do.

He also tells you to pray to him... even though he has already knows what you want.


By the way JamieB, here on AF this "Drich" dude is 'affectionately' known as Dripshit.

(May 30, 2017 at 10:25 am)Khemikal Wrote: God, apparently, is a lemon to be squeezed, lol.  You do you buddy, cash in on that.   

Quote:How much easier is death when there is no accountability to a God who likes his rules? Meaning how much easier will it be to die with the idea that there is no God?

To you, it probably wouldn't be easier.  Life and death in the absence of god, you've opined upon before, is a horrible proposition to you.

To me, it's no more or less easy regardless.  It's not as if I get to choose whether or not to die in any case, or what happens to me after I die, if anything happens to me.  I suppose a terrible person with latent theistic beliefs might find themselves dreading their death if god exists...and relieved if god doesn't...but?  The sort of ludicrous rating of difficulty in death as regards the god proposition must have a necessarily limited subset of applicability, but for people who don;t believe, it;s a complete non issue that doesn't make death any more or less difficult.  

You're simply projecting your own fears and doubts about what dreams may come onto others.  You should know, by now, Drich....that you're not like other people.  Your peculiarities are not theirs...lol...........

PREACH!! I completely agree. Thanks for making so much sense.

(May 30, 2017 at 9:03 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(May 29, 2017 at 11:05 pm)Valyza1 Wrote: Well, I'm not sure that's an apt example, as I was never told fairies were real.  I was told, however, or at least hinted at, as a kid, that Superman's home planet Krypton was real, and that if I went there I could get super powers like him.  The idea was never ridiculed, though.  I just grew up and naturally learned more about the nature of space travel and the nature of fiction.   And that's pretty much the process for every idea that I outgrew.  There was never a point where I felt that being ridiculed helped me on my path to learning more about the world, other than learning that some people are dicks.  

Okay, sure, you were never shamed out of anything.........

Oh, dear Zeus in the Clouds, I've been shamed out of DOING plenty of things! Shaming is an extremely effective finite term preventative tool, don't get me wrong. Being shamed never changed or even effected what I believe.

Quote:

Quote:What do you mean by "cannot see reason"?  Do you mean they only respond to emotional  stimulus? What is this "applicability of ridicule" you're speaking of?  Silencing people from saying irrational things?  Is a person who avoids passing a law they believe in just to avoid ridicule really the kind of person you want in congress?

Sure, particularly if the alternative is a person who -does- pass that law because he is -not- ashamed to do so.  

I actually think that public shaming works incredibly well on politicians.  None of them want to be the idiot that everyone's cracking jokes about.  Not good for their careers. Plenty of people, congressmen or otherwise, love to hate the gays. It's only the fact that society will no longer view their hatred as acceptable that keeps them from exposing themselves publicly. Think of the lengths a homophobe will go to in order to argue that they aren't a homophobe? That's shame, that's the applicability and effectiveness of ridicule. '

I see what you're saying. Congress is, after all, supposed to be a sound board for the People and reflect the interests of the populace. So if you can shame enough loud mouth theocrats to silence, you can help turn the tide against any theocracy in our government. I've only 2 things to note: 1)Fear of expression creates a duel consciousness, so the more true views are repressed in the seats of government, the more fuel is added to the fire of fringe groups representing those same views which, in turn, form revolutionary movements. The public face of a movement, politician, or population is only effective for so long before it shows it's true colors. 2)Any point underlying a ridicule can be made clearer and more effectively by being made plain and uninflected instead, reaching an agreement and/or consideration by a much larger group of onlookers.

(May 30, 2017 at 2:18 pm)Valyza1 Wrote: Oh, dear Zeus in the Clouds, I've been shamed out of DOING plenty of things! Shaming is an extremely effective finite term preventative tool, don't get me wrong.  Being shamed never changed or even effected what I believe.  

Sure it did.  Once upon a time you believed that it was acceptable to do or say x.  After having said or done x in view of people, they changed your mind about that, with shame.  You might even be in the position where you don't understand their response, and think it was unfair..but regardless of that, they definitely changed your belief about -something-. I;d settle for that, personally. In my opinion, what people believe, so long as it's privately held, is no one else's business or problem. As long as bigots understand that their religion doesn't give them a pass for being bigots..I don't care that they believe bigoted shit. Feel me? It;s as if you think that ridicule is being applied to stop people from believing, rather than to oppose people who do or saying terrible shit -because- they believe?

Quote:I see what you're saying.  Congress is, after all, supposed to be a sound board for the People and reflect the interests of the populace.  So if you can shame enough loud mouth theocrats to silence, you can help turn the tide against any theocracy in our government.  I've only 2 things to note: 1)Fear of expression creates a duel consciousness, so the more true views are repressed in the seats of government, the more fuel is added to the fire of fringe groups representing those same views which, in turn, form revolutionary movements.  The public face of a movement, politician, or population is only effective for so long before it shows it's true colors.  2)Any point underlying a ridicule can be made clearer and more effectively by being made plain and uninflected instead, reaching an agreement and/or consideration by a much larger group of onlookers.

Personally, I prefer that the loudmouth theocrats keep talking, so that shame can be piled upon them in plain view of the less-loudmouthed but equally theocratic dipshits.   I appreciate that you think some sort of refined rational debate or conversation would work better.. but that hasn't been my experience, particularly with those whose rational and civil agency has been so effectively subverted by their religious beliefs that they go around mouthing off horrible shit for anyone and everyone to hear.

These boards are a testament to the ineffectiveness of that approach, specifically with regards to some people™ and some beliefs™. There's been -plenty- of rational, civil discussion regarding them..from all corners. Those people nevertheless persist in their beliefs. No agreement has been reached. No additional consideration is made. Some of them believe in giants, actual giants.......ffs.

Go talk them out of that, all civil and rational-like, if you think that's how their beliefs work. Imma make jokes.