I read he had a pretty wacky criminal history. Yep. That should have stopped him buying a gun, imo.

In some states charges alone can initiate a hold and subsequent investigation by a real person...but, the atf has a huge backlog on that, so...lol.  In illinois, however, if they had such a provision (which they don't...they need a conviction or for there to be no resolution to the charges on record) the State Police would have hit it...what with him applying, through them, for a license. Makes it convenient.

I think the idea that a criminal history, or history of criminal charges, ought to at least slow down a gun purchase is relatively uncontroversial. It's certainly legal and doesn't require any gun bills or new amendments. What it does require is money for the investigative labor, lol. In his case it would have shown up electonically, but, since it didn't fit their legal justification for restriction - would have been held and passed electronically. I doubt that a human eye ever saw the flag that was created.

(June 15, 2017 at 8:25 am)A Theist Wrote:

(June 15, 2017 at 6:52 am)Nymphadora Wrote: bold mine.

We call that narcissism. They are indeed master manipulators.

By manipulators, I'm sure you meant those manipulators who riot on campuses, use threats, bullying, arson, assault, destruction of both public and private property, and now attempted murder thrown into the mix to shut down conservatives and conservative speakers.

You're accusing them of acting as badly as the hard right. That is indeed a horrific charge.

Just rambling, but..I can't imagine what nutters find dystopian in the idea of a person knowing that they, personally, are looking to purchase a gun.  Or, in a world in which..when a person with a spotty history does decide to buy a gun, somebody from a relevant regulatory agency shows up just to say hi, just to make sure they aren't dressing cabbage patch dolls up as jews and hanging them in their yards or nailing them to trees by the throat.

"Hi John, so, we heard you wanted to buy a cannon.... looking at your yard art is giving us the impression that we might want to explore this with you further, are you feeling well?"

(June 15, 2017 at 10:31 am)Shell B Wrote: I read he had a pretty wacky criminal history. Yep. That should have stopped him buying a gun, imo.

But his history wouldn't have stopped a relative or friend with a clean history from buying a gun for him. Or he could just go to a gun show and ignore background checks.

That's illegal, both federally and specifically in illinois. Technically, he had a clean history, per their state regs. It would have been flagged but passed.

It's strange, I think, that in the US people will very quickly refuse to buy drugs for another person - ostensibly because they understand that it's illegal, and that the penalties incurred will be for buying your asshole friend -his- drugs.......but, some of us will turn a legal gun into a hot piece with a straw purchase.

(June 15, 2017 at 11:02 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(June 15, 2017 at 10:31 am)Shell B Wrote: I read he had a pretty wacky criminal history. Yep. That should have stopped him buying a gun, imo.

But his history wouldn't have stopped a relative or friend with a clean history from buying a gun for him. Or he could just go to a gun show and ignore background checks.

It didn't even stop him buying it for himself, it would seem. I'm 100% for stricter background checks and specific other laws, even though I enjoy being able to own a firearm.

On a side note, I'm sick and tired of the Republicans scapegoating mentally ill people. They're like, "Sure, more gun control. We need to stop mentally ill people from getting guns." First off, there is a difference between murderous assholes and mentally ill people. Sure, some people are both, but they are not the same thing. Secondly, the heaping majority of people with mental illnesses are perfectly safe. Captain hand washer is less likely than Captain well-armed militia to protect us from the blacks to go off on a shooting spree. Sure, if you have a history of paranoia, violence or suicide attempts, maybe we shouldn't give you a gun, but mental illness means a lot of things.

(June 15, 2017 at 11:41 am)Shell B Wrote:

(June 15, 2017 at 11:02 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: But his history wouldn't have stopped a relative or friend with a clean history from buying a gun for him. Or he could just go to a gun show and ignore background checks.

It didn't even stop him buying it for himself, it would seem. I'm 100% for stricter background checks and specific other laws, even though I enjoy being able to own a firearm.

On a side note, I'm sick and tired of the Republicans scapegoating mentally ill people. They're like, "Sure, more gun control. We need to stop mentally ill people from getting guns." First off, there is a difference between murderous assholes and mentally ill people. Sure, some people are both, but they are not the same thing. Secondly, the heaping majority of people with mental illnesses are perfectly safe. Captain hand washer is less likely than Captain well-armed militia to protect us from the blacks to go off on a shooting spree. Sure, if you have a history of paranoia, violence or suicide attempts, maybe we shouldn't give you a gun, but mental illness means a lot of things.

Indeed only mentally ill people with a history of violence or instability  should not be allowed to own a gun .

And that's why very few people say a total ban on guns is needed or desired. "They're coming for your guns!" is a stampede phrase, and let's us see who the cattle are in this debate.

(June 14, 2017 at 10:04 am)Divinity Wrote: I'm sorry, but I have trouble feeling sorry for congressmen getting shot at when all they did when 20 elementary school children were murdered was virtue signal with their fucking thoughts and prayers.  I hope they don't die--and the gunman deserves life in prison--but I can't feel sorry for them.

I share the same sentiment as you Divinity. For the past 40 years the Religious Right take over of the Republican Party has fostered nothing but hatred against people who were not like the Conservative shitheads. Lies and spiteful language against Liberals and Progressives, lies and hateful language against gays, lesbians, people of other religions, hatefulness towards other Christians who were not Conservative, and lies and hatred against our people, the atheists and other freethinkers. They even declared that Secular Humanists as an enemy to their way of life. Oh yes, I also remember the Conservatives saying that atheists should not be considered citizens of America and that liberals were being unpatriotic for not supporting the Neo-Con war in Iraq. And the Dominionist language against our people, threats to our existence both veiled and not so veiled. I remember all that shit. Conservatives were the ones who poisoned the well of political discourse.

The only sad thing I can say about this is that more Conservatives were not shot.

Yes, I admit it, I have hate in my heart. I gained it honestly.