(June 19, 2017 at 12:32 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(June 19, 2017 at 12:18 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: There is (or should be) a qualitative distinction between the Bible recording Jesus saying this, Jesus saying that and so forth, and then when a Joseph Smith, or a Jim Bakker pops up and says things in accord with what Scripture records, that is fine and dandy, however, when someone pops up and says essentially Jesus told me to go contradict Him, there otta be a 'flag on the play'.

Why do you only mention Paul? Why not Peter, for the vision he claimed he received which led to opening things up to gentiles? Jesus said that what Peter loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven though. Or didn't that remark from Jesus count?

Nowadays, people who hallucinate like that are shot up with thorazine and locked up for a while so they can't hurt themselves or others.  Too bad the Romans weren't so progressive.

(June 19, 2017 at 1:09 pm)Khemikal Wrote: The ops question was simple.  Would you kill your kid.  

And my answer was probably not. It wasn't an outright no as I don't think anyone can say with certainty how they'd react to the creator of the universe. What part of that is unreasonable?

(June 19, 2017 at 12:53 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(June 19, 2017 at 12:41 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Maybe that's the disconnect..you think that anybody is asking you about the story.  No one cares.  People wonder how modern day believers..purportedly better people™, reconcile their own faiths -today- with the character and commands portrayed in said story.  We've seen how you do so, you ponder slitting your kids throat.

Reconciling my own faith with that of Abraham is easy - my faith is lesser than his, and so God wouldn't even approach me with such a command. That wasn't the question though.

Quote:Since that seems pretty cut and dry, I'm fine with moving on to this newest evasion.  As I already mentioned..when a person orders a hit in our country, we charge them with a crime regardless of whether any murder is accomplished.

I didn't expect you to admit that moving to current law was an evasion, but yes, I agree.

---

(June 19, 2017 at 12:51 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: understand my dismay and disappoint:
scenario1)
Apostates and heretics flock to Atheist Forums and are converted to Atheism en masse.


[yawn]

scenario 2)
1 actual pious believer shows up, starts Witnessing the Actual Word, but then after reading some other posts here realizes he is compelled to embrace Atheism.



Obviously, the real thrill of being here is for the promise of scenario 2 someday happening.  Who gives a rats ass if a heretic renounces God?

Not me !!

You used to be an interesting poster. Now you're a 2-trick pony (Paul, day of crucifixion). I've got to share the yawn. I'm disappointed.

You left out handling deadly serpents and swilling poison.

Any chance you'll post a vid of your results ??

(June 19, 2017 at 2:23 pm)alpha male Wrote: And my answer was probably not. It wasn't an outright no as I don't think anyone can say with certainty how they'd react to the creator of the universe. What part of that is unreasonable?

I think that you misjudge the certainty of others by reference to your own alleged doubts.  I can tell you, with certainty, that of all the ways I might react to the creator of the universe....killing my kid.... isn't one of them.  Even on the face of this, it's ludicrous.  Many contend that they -have- had a divine experience..and yet they managed not to kill their children on account of it.

IMO, this constant pious theater has more to do with your stated opinion of the perception of relative faithlessness involved in simply accepting that you, like every atheist who's ever asked you this question..would not kill your kid.  That you, like every atheist who's ever asked you the question, find the divinely issued command horrid even as a hypothetical. You don;t want to have that conversation, and so provide a long wheedling series of non-answers and feigned ignorance as cover. The irony in all of this, from this end, is that you managed to competently answer those questions presented to you by the very virtue of attempting to answer any other question you could come up with.

/twocents

(June 19, 2017 at 2:45 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I think that you misjudge the certainty of others by reference to your own alleged doubts.  I can tell you, with certainty, that of all the ways I might react to the creator of the universe....killing my kid.... isn't one of them.  Even on the face of this, it's ludicrous.  Many contend that they -have- had a divine experience..and yet they managed not to kill their children on account of it.

You don't know what you would do if confronted by god. It's ridiculous to say you can be certain.

Quote:IMO, this constant pious theater

It wasn't pious of me to say that I would probably not obey God.

Quote:has more to do with your stated opinion of the perception of relative faithlessness involved in simply accepting that you, like every atheist who's ever asked you this question..would not kill your kid.

Huh? I freely admit that I don't have the faith of Abraham.

Quote:That you, like every atheist who's ever asked you the question, find the divinely issued command horrid even as a hypothetical.

Sure. That was the point in proposing it to Abraham as a test of faith.

Quote:You don;t want to have that conversation, and so provide a long wheedling series of non-answers and feigned ignorance as cover.

See above. I have no problem with a conversation when you actually get to your points. That just takes awhile sometimes.

I'm not shy when it comes to menstruation, either.

(June 19, 2017 at 3:01 pm)alpha male Wrote: You don't know what you would do if confronted by god. It's ridiculous to say you can be certain.

If you can't accept my answer..why should anyone accept yours?  I understand that it's important to you to spread the indignation around to others.  Too bad.  I wouldn't kill my kid. I'd piss my pants and run away...wasn't that the prevailing theory? Am I going to stop, at some point there, to bind my kid up, and haul him up a mountain? Seems like it would eat into my pissing and running time, to me.

Quote:It wasn't pious of me to say that I would probably not obey God.

Quote:

Quote:has more to do with your stated opinion of the perception of relative faithlessness involved in simply accepting that you, like every atheist who's ever asked you this question..would not kill your kid.

Huh? I freely admit that I don't have the faith of Abraham.

You don't freely admit it.  You qualify it....and getta out of here with this shit, lol.

Quote:Sure. That was the point in proposing it to Abraham as a test of faith.

Wasn't a problem for abraham, it is a problem for you (allegedly).  This has absolutely nothing to do with -your- faith, and you know it.  It has to do with you thinking that any such command is horrid.  That's the entire point of someone asking you a question like this. That every person who's ever asked has to peel back 30 layers of christian onion to find a human being is exactly what they wonder about in asking it. It's not something that you could have missed..it pops right out at you too. You instantly grasp that some comment regarding your relative faithlessness is required to salvage the un-salvageable.

Quote:See above. I have no problem with a conversation when you actually get to your points. That just takes awhile sometimes.

Particularly when I get three non-answers for every question.

(June 19, 2017 at 3:14 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If you can't accept my answer..why should anyone accept yours?  

Because it's more reasonable to take the position that you can't say with certainty how you would behave in an extraordinary situation.

Quote:Wasn't a problem for abraham, it is a problem for you (allegedly).  This has absolutely nothing to do with your faith, and you know it.  It has to do with you thinking that any such command is horrid.

It's both. Again, an easy command isn't a test of faith. Yes, the thought of killing my own child is horrible. That's why it would require great faith to do it. I doubt that I have such faith.  

Quote:Particularly when I get three non-answers for every question.

You're just upset that I'm answering honestly and reasonably.

(June 19, 2017 at 3:22 pm)alpha male Wrote: Because it's more reasonable to take the position that you can't say with certainty how you would behave in an extraordinary situation.

Your position isn't more reasonable, it's just a rhetorical requirement, for you..anyway.  I have no such problem..I wouldn't kill my kid.  I've been in extraordinary situations. Didn't kill my kid. Plenty of people claim to have been in divinely extraordinary situations.....they didn't kill their kids either.

Quote:It's both. Again, an easy command isn't a test of faith. Yes, the thought of killing my own child is horrible. That's why it would require great faith to do it. I doubt that I have such faith.  

-and here again you frame your inability to kill your own child as a character defect. This is why I'm not taking your bullshit seriously, you aren't even taking it seriously.

Quote:You're just upset that I'm answering honestly and reasonably.

I guess we'll find out if that's true when we get there?

(June 19, 2017 at 3:29 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Your position isn't more reasonable, it's just a rhetorical requirement, for you..anyway.  I have no such problem..I wouldn't kill my kid.  

If my "probably" is just rhetorical, then we have the same position.

Quote:-and here again you frame your inability to kill your own child as a character defect.  This is why I'm not taking your bullshit seriously, you aren't even taking it seriously.  

You're seeing it that way. I see it as showing both good and bad.

Try an atheist version - if you could save the lives of 50 children by killing your own child, would you do so? Can't you spin any answer as showing good or bad character, or a mixture of good and bad?