(June 26, 2017 at 1:32 pm)vorlon13 Wrote:

(June 26, 2017 at 1:13 pm)Lek Wrote: The message of the Holy Spirit is always true.  . . . . . 

GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.

GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.



Indeed.

Mat 26:52 Those who live by the sword will die by the sword

Luj 22:36 If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one

Situational ethics?

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(June 26, 2017 at 1:38 pm)SteveII Wrote: Here is a good (thorough) article on this issue: http://www.ukapologetics.net/Jesusandthelaw.html

Your poorly concealed attempts to shoehorn a proselytizing session into my thread do not change the fact that the biblical writers speak of witches as if they really exist.

(June 26, 2017 at 3:36 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: [quote pid='1575190' dateline='1498498720']

Here is a good (thorough) article on this issue: http://www.ukapologetics.net/Jesusandthelaw.html

Your poorly concealed attempts to shoehorn a proselytizing session into my thread do not change the fact that the biblical writers  speak of witches as if they really exist.
[/quote]

Then stop mis-characterizing Christianity in almost every one of your posts so I don't have to explain it to you. 

Like is said above. I am certain they do exist. What does that matter to any of the points you brought up?

(June 26, 2017 at 4:25 pm)SteveII Wrote: Then stop mis-characterizing Christianity in almost every one of your posts so I don't have to explain it to you. 

Like is said above. I am certain they do exist. What does that matter to any of the points you brought up?

Steve, are you really ready to go down on record as saying that you actually believe that there were/are people who, like the witch King Solomon consulted to speak to Samuel after he was dead, are able to summon dead spirits?

This wasn't like one of the charlatans we have today who claim you still owe them for a reading from a past life. According to the bible, Samuel's dead spirit actually responded to the witch's summons and cursed Solomon.

And this you believe? Well, yes, in that case nothing that I've said in this thread applies to you.

Of course witches exist.


All wrong thinking women are witches.


Sheesh.

(June 26, 2017 at 2:26 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(June 26, 2017 at 2:09 pm)Lek Wrote: No.  He didn't change his mind.  He had a purpose for doing what he did under the old covenant and for what he did under the new covenant.  And he did mess with poor Job, but how did Job come out in the whole scheme of things?  Based on your ideas of eternity, you'll come away with entirely different interpretations of God actions and motives.  God did act wrathfully with people before Christ.  That's what Jesus took upon himself for us on the cross.

Uh, apparently he did. You don't get to change definitions because it suits you. And are you seriously trying to justify what he did to Job? The fact that he doesn't give a half a fuck about informed consent tells you how little he regards us, and how primitive the whole damn premise is. "Hey, Joby-Job! My man! What's shaking, dawg? Listen, I'm an insecure dickhole and I want to prove to yet another one of my creations that didn't quite pan out the way I intended even though I have full control over how I construct them, that if I do some really sick, twisted, me-awful shit to you, you'll still not only believe in me, but continue praising me for my glory. Well, I mean, like, I'll have your property destroyed, I'll have some thugs come in and butcher all your relatives and servants and livestock, and...oh, no, ha ha, I'm not even close to done yet, bro, listen to this: I'm going to make you sick as fuck and writhe in pain from sores and boils all over your body. Yeah, I know, sounds fucked as hell, dunnit? But I'm gonna do it anyway, and all I need is your go-ahead. What do you get in return? Hey, fuck you, man, I don't owe you shit. Well, I guess fair's fair though, so I'll replace everything you lost and then some, 'kay? So whaddaya say, sport?" Tell me a story about a god who offers Job this chance to decline torment and you'll have created a god superior to the one you currently believe in. I hope you're proud of yourself.

In this way, we have way, way more misplaced faith in that prick than he has in us and it's hard to figure out why no one's caught on to that. And it's a shame about those poor fucks who died in the flood since god wasn't ready to say, you know what, fuck it, I'll forgive them, except I have to show them how much I hate them first by burning one of them in effigy to expiate all those sins I programmed into them but blame on them, but since I'm such a nice guy who would never do anything to a guy like Job (LOL, j/k) I'll make myself into one of them for a bit and suffer it even though hundreds of people get crucified and my bad weekend ain't that damn impressive. That'll show me how cool I am. Me! Me! Me! Whoo! Oh, wait, they didn't burn my human body...I like the smell of charred human flesh...well, that was a waste. Meh, might as well completely reverse the whole idea of dying and bring myself back to life before I yank it back up here.

I mean, have you seriously never considered how fucked up the whole Jesus thing is? God creates us this way and yet condemns us for his own fuck-up, torments us for centuries in one way or another until he gets the bright idea to perform a completely unnecessary act of barbaric human sacrifice, which he could have chosen simply not to do and forgiven us (and admitted his own abominable and unpardonable wrongdoing) for something which isn't even our fault in the first place, and hell, even delivered clearly and without a shred of ambiguity a message he wished to convey. This is the most vile, inept version of a god I've ever fucking heard of, and yet it's the most popular mainstream flavor on earth.

To quote Richard Dawkins on this wretched lunacy: Barking mad.

During WWII American soldiers were told to kill German soldiers. After WWII they were no longer told to kill German soldiers. No one changed their minds, but the situation changed. I previously mentioned that our view of eternity effects our view of situations. Your view of Job's story was that his reward was to get a whole of stuff back. I see his reward for following God as eternal life with him. How do you think our suffering, combined with our faithfulness to God, effects the entirety of our existence? I'm sure you think suffering just makes things worse because you don't believe in existence after the death of our earthly bodies. You may think you don't deserve any punishment, but look around you at the rest of us.

As far as Richard Dawkins is concerned, I'm not really that interested in what he thinks. Of course he thinks all theists are crazy; the same as non-believers thought of christians in the early church. It's not something that sits well with those who believe as he does. I think he's crazy, so that makes us even in that regard.

Quote:Well, if we turned the other cheek at the battle of Hastings, we'd all be Muslim right now, so...

Hastings?  Rly?  I think you mean Tours.


And, for the record, the holy spirit can kiss my ass.

(June 26, 2017 at 4:57 pm)Lek Wrote: During WWII American soldiers were told to kill German soldiers.  After WWII they were no longer told to kill German soldiers.  No one changed their minds, but the situation changed.  I previously mentioned  that our view of eternity effects our view of situations.  Your view of Job's story was that his reward was to get a whole of stuff back.  I see his reward for following God as eternal life with him.  How do you think our suffering, combined with our faithfulness to God, effects the entirety of our existence?  I'm sure you think suffering just makes things worse because you don't believe in existence after the death of our earthly bodies.  You may think you don't deserve any punishment, but look around you at the rest of us.

As far as Richard Dawkins is concerned, I'm not really that interested in what he thinks.  Of course he thinks all theists are crazy; the same as non-believers thought of christians in the early church.  It's not something that sits well with those who believe as he does.  I think he's crazy, so that makes us even in that regard.

Situational ethics and the ends justifying the means comes to the aid of Christian apologetics once again. Then you want people to look to the bible for moral absolutes. Get the fuck outta here.

(June 26, 2017 at 4:57 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 26, 2017 at 2:26 pm)Astonished Wrote: Uh, apparently he did. You don't get to change definitions because it suits you. And are you seriously trying to justify what he did to Job? The fact that he doesn't give a half a fuck about informed consent tells you how little he regards us, and how primitive the whole damn premise is. "Hey, Joby-Job! My man! What's shaking, dawg? Listen, I'm an insecure dickhole and I want to prove to yet another one of my creations that didn't quite pan out the way I intended even though I have full control over how I construct them, that if I do some really sick, twisted, me-awful shit to you, you'll still not only believe in me, but continue praising me for my glory. Well, I mean, like, I'll have your property destroyed, I'll have some thugs come in and butcher all your relatives and servants and livestock, and...oh, no, ha ha, I'm not even close to done yet, bro, listen to this: I'm going to make you sick as fuck and writhe in pain from sores and boils all over your body. Yeah, I know, sounds fucked as hell, dunnit? But I'm gonna do it anyway, and all I need is your go-ahead. What do you get in return? Hey, fuck you, man, I don't owe you shit. Well, I guess fair's fair though, so I'll replace everything you lost and then some, 'kay? So whaddaya say, sport?" Tell me a story about a god who offers Job this chance to decline torment and you'll have created a god superior to the one you currently believe in. I hope you're proud of yourself.

In this way, we have way, way more misplaced faith in that prick than he has in us and it's hard to figure out why no one's caught on to that. And it's a shame about those poor fucks who died in the flood since god wasn't ready to say, you know what, fuck it, I'll forgive them, except I have to show them how much I hate them first by burning one of them in effigy to expiate all those sins I programmed into them but blame on them, but since I'm such a nice guy who would never do anything to a guy like Job (LOL, j/k) I'll make myself into one of them for a bit and suffer it even though hundreds of people get crucified and my bad weekend ain't that damn impressive. That'll show me how cool I am. Me! Me! Me! Whoo! Oh, wait, they didn't burn my human body...I like the smell of charred human flesh...well, that was a waste. Meh, might as well completely reverse the whole idea of dying and bring myself back to life before I yank it back up here.

I mean, have you seriously never considered how fucked up the whole Jesus thing is? God creates us this way and yet condemns us for his own fuck-up, torments us for centuries in one way or another until he gets the bright idea to perform a completely unnecessary act of barbaric human sacrifice, which he could have chosen simply not to do and forgiven us (and admitted his own abominable and unpardonable wrongdoing) for something which isn't even our fault in the first place, and hell, even delivered clearly and without a shred of ambiguity a message he wished to convey. This is the most vile, inept version of a god I've ever fucking heard of, and yet it's the most popular mainstream flavor on earth.

To quote Richard Dawkins on this wretched lunacy: Barking mad.

During WWII American soldiers were told to kill German soldiers.  After WWII they were no longer told to kill German soldiers.  No one changed their minds, but the situation changed.  I previously mentioned  that our view of eternity effects our view of situations.  Your view of Job's story was that his reward was to get a whole of stuff back.  I see his reward for following God as eternal life with him.  How do you think our suffering, combined with our faithfulness to God, effects the entirety of our existence?  I'm sure you think suffering just makes things worse because you don't believe in existence after the death of our earthly bodies.  You may think you don't deserve any punishment, but look around you at the rest of us.

As far as Richard Dawkins is concerned, I'm not really that interested in what he thinks.  Of course he thinks all theists are crazy; the same as non-believers thought of christians in the early church.  It's not something that sits well with those who believe as he does.  I think he's crazy, so that makes us even in that regard.

Wow, you drowned in the Kool-Aid didn't ya? First off, the 'obey unquestioningly god the perfect unalterable all-knowing anus in the sky' is by no means whatsoever any sort of comparison so your analogy fails miserably and you look the fool for trying. See, because we're human, we get that shit changes, this apparent deity can't grasp the reality he created. Funny ol' world. And once again you ignore the fact that god is an asshole who doesn't care what we think and will do whatever he wishes to us as callously as he pleases. I mean, what is the point if you go from ant beneath a magnifying glass in life to puppy in the afterlife? That's still incredibly patronizing and doesn't make god any less of a dick.

The only thing you're right about is how our view of eternity affects our view of situations, and it has affected you in a way that makes you indistinguishable from a four-year-old in your reasoning. You should be embarrassed to be espousing this crap. Answer me this, then, and fuck god, listen to me, FUCK god, and what he thinks, tell me what YOU, as a goddamned human, think about this absurd proposition: There is anything you could possibly do in your limited lifespan, with your limited intelligence and limited resources and the circumstances surrounding your life that you have no control over, that either merits an eternity of bliss or an eternity of punishment. Something in you has to scream that this is bullshit. Whether or not it also screams that the god who would concoct either of these scenarios is not the worst possible entity that could exist is probably something you aren't ready to admit but you're never going to smooth out the wrinkles in your brain til you do.

And HOW FUCKING DARE YOU lay that accusation on the world, you stupid, uncaring, piece of human shit. Am I out there murdering, raping, stealing, or doing anything of that nature to cause other to suffer? FUCK NO! But your bullshit religion has brainwashed your gullible ass into thinking that way and fuck you for falling for it, dickhead. Seriously, if I had a kid and you were to say that in front of them, I might honestly lose what restraint I have and make it so you could never utter another word. That is seriously the level of offense you commit when you throw around your 'we all deserve to burn for eternity' shit. I mean, for the good of the world, that is something that really should merit a serious, severe punishment. Don't ever, ever say anything like that again. Or maybe if you have some young people you care about I can follow your example and really go into elaborate detail about it, scare the fuck out of them and scar them for life. You seem to be willing to throw this shit around like it's nothing so surely you wouldn't care if someone you loved had nightmares for the rest of their life and grew up to hate you for advocating putting that in their heads.

Lek is one of the worst offenders around here.

There is no atrocity in the fucking bible he won't excuse.

(June 26, 2017 at 5:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Lek is one of the worst offenders around here.

There is no atrocity in the fucking bible he won't excuse.

Ain't that always the way? Religion has no answers, only excuses. Talk about backing the wrong fucking horse.