(July 20, 2011 at 9:57 am)Rhythm Wrote: This isn't something I'm directing at anyone, just want to comment on the idea of "fearing god". Those that believe in lets say the biblical god in all truth probably do not fear him. They believe, by self definition, that they are part of the "chosen group". The group of human beings who will avoid eternal punishment. It's always that way with believers, they conjure up a terrifying god that they themselves have no reason to fear as they are part of the "club".

We don't leverage this particular quirk of humanity solely with regards to gods. We also trot it out in social constructs, whereby one has nothing to fear from a dictator as long as he's part of the dictators club. The devoted subjects of a tyrant (earthly or heavenly) do not consider the issue of what the tyrant does to defectors one that they have to account for. It won't happen to them, or anyone like them. Since they are the "good people of such and such" obviously, those punished were defective or undesirable in some way.

Food for thought I suppose.

So you tink hell is the only punishment there is, God punishes those who disobey Him in this life to, the omnipotent God is to be feared. When the fear of God is mentioned in most of scripture it means to have respect for God not to shake in your boots.

(July 22, 2011 at 4:45 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(July 20, 2011 at 9:57 am)Rhythm Wrote: This isn't something I'm directing at anyone, just want to comment on the idea of "fearing god". Those that believe in lets say the biblical god in all truth probably do not fear him. They believe, by self definition, that they are part of the "chosen group". The group of human beings who will avoid eternal punishment. It's always that way with believers, they conjure up a terrifying god that they themselves have no reason to fear as they are part of the "club".

We don't leverage this particular quirk of humanity solely with regards to gods. We also trot it out in social constructs, whereby one has nothing to fear from a dictator as long as he's part of the dictators club. The devoted subjects of a tyrant (earthly or heavenly) do not consider the issue of what the tyrant does to defectors one that they have to account for. It won't happen to them, or anyone like them. Since they are the "good people of such and such" obviously, those punished were defective or undesirable in some way.

Food for thought I suppose.

So you tink hell is the only punishment there is, God punishes those who disobey Him in this life to, the omnipotent God is to be feared. When the fear of God is mentioned in most of scripture it means to have respect for God not to shake in your boots.

That's really unfair. On one hand you have God punishing you for disobeying him and then on the other hand he refuses to prove that he even exists!

(July 22, 2011 at 4:45 pm)Godschild Wrote: So you tink hell is the only punishment there is, God punishes those who disobey Him in this life to, the omnipotent God is to be feared.

And yet with regard to god punishing in this life, the fear you speak of is what is traditionally understood as holding fear of god. Which of course then precludes god from being omni-benevolent.

Quote:When the fear of God is mentioned in most of scripture it means to have respect for God not to shake in your boots.

I agree. Earlier translations of the Bible declare that fear of the lord is to venerate, revere, hold in awe and respect. And yet, isn't that god-fearing deference a result of scripture that imparts god punishes, exercises his wrath and vengence, as one that insists he is the only god, against those who do not fear him?

If god drowns the whole world save for one family he let's to live and then, as they and all the inbred generations they shall be responsible for in repopulating the earth by god's will are again let to be sinners, which caused god's wrath to send the waters in the first place, and he then reiterates that he must be feared and loved as the lord thy god, does someone who just survived to witness what he does when god judges fear (veneration, respect, awe, reverence) to be unsatisfactory and sin rampant, going to be persuaded to do otherwise?

God punishes the condition he created to come into being. And then he threatens, intimidates and terrorizes compliance in wake of the evidence of what he's capable of when dissatisfied , as a superior being, with the behaviors of lesser mortals.
In order to fear god,i.e. respect, he has to earn it. Is it then any real surprise that after the flood omniscient omnipresent omnipotence promised next time he'd not drown his creation, but would instead consume them with fire. That is meant to imply the traditional definition of fear. Of the being that's suppose to be superior to our human failings and sins. Tragic, he demonstrates he in the eternal example of one who possesses them, because from that creator did they have their genesis.

We humans would be perfect.
If it wasn't for god.
So says the book.

Just one question... just because I have an answer for this question, does that mean I will be able to do such, or will I have no choice when it comes to the all-powerful tyrant?

Point to an example of god punishing human beings here on earth. What a ridiculous claim.

(July 22, 2011 at 4:57 pm)Darwinian Wrote: That's really unfair. On one hand you have God punishing you for disobeying him and then on the other hand he refuses to prove that he even exists!

The God of scripture was once directly knowable, He walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, even Lucifer before his fall walked in the garden of Eden. Now since sin has entered the world and God will not walk in the presence of sin we must know Him through faith, this is another price humanity paid for the original sin. I guess I should have brought this up in the discussion on original sin. How can your statement "That's really unfair" be of any consequence when you do not believe in God. How is it that you see an action by a nonexistant being as unfair or fair for that matter?

---

(July 22, 2011 at 5:23 pm)Judas BentHer Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='156897' dateline='1311367513']


So you tink hell is the only punishment there is, God punishes those who disobey Him in this life to, the omnipotent God is to be feared.

JBH Wrote:And yet with regard to god punishing in this life, the fear you speak of is what is traditionally understood as holding fear of god. Which of course then precludes god from being omni-benevolent.

GC Wrote:When the fear of God is mentioned in most of scripture it means to have respect for God not to shake in your boots.

JBH Wrote:I agree. Earlier translations of the Bible declare that fear of the lord is to venerate, revere, hold in awe and respect. And yet, isn't that god-fearing deference a result of scripture that imparts god punishes, exercises his wrath and vengence, as one that insists he is the only god, against those who do not fear him?

Yes. However we have laws and those who administer the law, for those who obey the law (venerate, revere and ect) they have no fear of the law (shake in your boots). Those who have no fear for the law (venerate, revere and ect.) and disobey the law, they have a fear of the law (shake in your boots) because of the punishment they will face. I see a likeness in our system of law and the fear of God.

JBH Wrote:If god drowns the whole world save for one family he let's to live and then, as they and all the inbred generations they shall be responsible for in repopulating the earth by god's will are again let to be sinners, which caused god's wrath to send the waters in the first place, and he then reiterates that he must be feared and loved as the lord thy god, does someone who just survived to witness what he does when god judges fear (veneration, respect, awe, reverence) to be unsatisfactory and sin rampant, going to be persuaded to do otherwise?

Not sure what you are asking, please explain.

JBH Wrote:God punishes the condition he created to come into being. And then he threatens, intimidates and terrorizes compliance in wake of the evidence of what he's capable of when dissatisfied , as a superior being, with the behaviors of lesser mortals.
In order to fear god,i.e. respect, he has to earn it. Is it then any real surprise that after the flood omniscient omnipresent omnipotence promised next time he'd not drown his creation, but would instead consume them with fire. That is meant to imply the traditional definition of fear. Of the being that's suppose to be superior to our human failings and sins. Tragic, he demonstrates he in the eternal example of one who possesses them, because from that creator did they have their genesis.

We humans would be perfect.
If it wasn't for god.
So says the book.

God did not create the condition of sinfulness, this is man made by the disobedence of Adam and mans continued sinfulness today. God does not threaten, intimidate and terrorize mankind into compliance, He has given His laws and has said there will be just punishment for sin (disobedence). Man himself has created this illusion that God is out to get them, why, because they want to exercise their freewill in disobedence to God's law and so they have a fear of the One who is powerful enough to bring justice into their lives, just as I stated above or system of law resembles the fear of God. What makes you believe that the creator of all life needs to earn your respect, you got this thing all backwards, it is we who need to earn God's respect. Of course that is the view of someone who believes man created God, but why would a nonbeliever have a view on a being they do not believe exists, to me that just seem to be a little on the nutty side. I'm not calling you nuts just your thoughts on God, they seem unreasonable to me. God did promise that He would not flood the earth again, however He did look down through history and saw that man would reach the same disdain for Him as was in Noah's day and foretold the destruction of His entire creation, not just mankind. For those who see the destruction of the creation as traditional fear they are just in their thoughts, because God's finial judgment will be poured out on His entire creation, however those who trust in Christ as their savior have nothing to fear, we are protected.
What book?

---

(July 25, 2011 at 9:41 am)Rhythm Wrote: Point to an example of god punishing human beings here on earth. What a ridiculous claim.

Will give you one, even though I know you do not believe it happened, though your believe on this changes nothing, the great flood.

---

(July 24, 2011 at 5:31 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: Just one question... just because I have an answer for this question, does that mean I will be able to do such, or will I have no choice when it comes to the all-powerful tyrant?

To do what? You always have a choice, God gave you freedom to do so.

Quote:The God of scripture was once directly knowable, He walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, even Lucifer before his fall walked in the garden of Eden

Wow, G-C. Every time I think you have established a new standard for childish fucking stupidity you beat your own record.

How LOW can you GO?

(July 25, 2011 at 11:40 am)Godschild Wrote: The God of scripture was once directly knowable, He walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, even Lucifer before his fall walked in the garden of Eden. Now since sin has entered the world and God will not walk in the presence of sin we must know Him through faith, this is another price humanity paid for the original sin.

So god will send us to hell for not believing in him, but because of what Adam and Eve did, he refuses to show any proof that he exists? Do you honestly think this is consistent with the concept of an omniscient deity, or are you just regurgitating what you've been told without putting a moment's thought into it?

(July 25, 2011 at 2:40 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote:

(July 25, 2011 at 11:40 am)Godschild Wrote: The God of scripture was once directly knowable, He walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, even Lucifer before his fall walked in the garden of Eden. Now since sin has entered the world and God will not walk in the presence of sin we must know Him through faith, this is another price humanity paid for the original sin.

So god will send us to hell for not believing in him, but because of what Adam and Eve did, he refuses to show any proof that he exists? Do you honestly think this is consistent with the concept of an omniscient deity, or are you just regurgitating what you've been told without putting a moment's thought into it?

This is consistent with the righteous God of creation and salvation, it's consistent with what I've learned studying scriptures, if you would study them this would not have to be explained to you whether you believe or not, it's right there in the Bible.

(July 26, 2011 at 1:30 am)Godschild Wrote: This is consistent with the righteous God of creation and salvation, it's consistent with what I've learned studying scriptures, if you would study them this would not have to be explained to you whether you believe or not, it's right there in the Bible.

I know what the bible says, I'm just wondering if you've put any of your own thought into it what the bible says or if you just wholeheartedly believe this without questioning it. I'm trying to figure out if you have actually put one iota of thought into this or if you are just another Christian parrot.