Salvation is such an ugly word.

(July 8, 2017 at 11:21 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(July 8, 2017 at 10:51 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: So trolling then? gotcha.

I posted this in the Christian subforum, as it is a "discussion specific to Christianity (any denomination) should go here."  A completely appropriate topic, no?

---

(July 8, 2017 at 10:56 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The Bible is clear that those born of God do not commit sin.


So obviously the scripture you posted is not speaking of the elect, what point were you trying to make?

It says, clearly, one of you.  The author was talking to believers, no?  How can one "wander from the truth" if they are not part of The Elect to begin with?

I thought I made it clear that there are Christians that are part of the elect and there are Christians who are not.

In the parable of the 10 virgins, the only thing that differentiated them from one another were some had oil while the others did not, but they were all virgins.

So again, some Christians are part of the elect while some aren't, got it?

You questioned nothing Lek said though he provided no scripture, I provide scripture and you fight me tooth and nail...

(July 9, 2017 at 12:20 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 8, 2017 at 11:21 pm)Jehanne Wrote: I posted this in the Christian subforum, as it is a "discussion specific to Christianity (any denomination) should go here."  A completely appropriate topic, no?

---

It says, clearly, one of you.  The author was talking to believers, no?  How can one "wander from the truth" if they are not part of The Elect to begin with?

I thought I made it clear that there are Christians that are part of the elect and there are Christians who are not.

In the parable of the 10 virgins, the only thing that differentiated them from one another were some had oil while the others did not, but they were all virgins.

So again, some Christians are part of the elect while some aren't, got it?

You questioned nothing Lek said though he provided no scripture, I provide scripture and you fight me tooth and nail...

So, there are some Christians who have been "saved" but yet are still going to end up in Hell?  Why do these "saved" people go to Hell?

(July 9, 2017 at 8:00 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(July 9, 2017 at 12:20 am)Huggy74 Wrote: I thought I made it clear that there are Christians that are part of the elect and there are Christians who are not.

In the parable of the 10 virgins, the only thing that differentiated them from one another were some had oil while the others did not, but they were all virgins.

So again, some Christians are part of the elect while some aren't, got it?

You questioned nothing Lek said though he provided no scripture, I provide scripture and you fight me tooth and nail...

So, there are some Christians who have been "saved" but yet are still going to end up in Hell?  Why do these "saved" people go to Hell?

Because they have come to know the truth and then reject it.

Quote:Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matthew 7:21-23

Iniquity = lawlessness; the utter disregard for God's law

Did not Jesus say that the Apostles names were written in the book of life? Judas was included in that, but he rejected the deity of Christ.

Quote:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Revelation 22:19

inequity ?

like letting menstruating women in a church with a flower patch out front with 10 different kinds of flowers, and the church forbids sacrificing of the firstborn and they don't check the men for discharges and they don't pay the church secretary every day and they sanctify remarriages for divorced people and they don't handle deadly serpents and even the altar cloths are made from diverse fabrics and they've never rebuked an astrologer and their food pantry feeds people who do not work and they allow their women members to wear jewelry and address the congregation and they don't great each other with a holy kiss, and their picture of Jesus portrays Him with long hair, and they don't practice everything their Pharisees teaches since they don't have a Pharisees, and they don't pluck out their eyes to avoid sinning or cut off hands to avoid more sinning and they don't speak in tongues, EVER, kind of inequity ??

(July 9, 2017 at 10:26 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 9, 2017 at 8:00 am)Jehanne Wrote: So, there are some Christians who have been "saved" but yet are still going to end up in Hell?  Why do these "saved" people go to Hell?

Because they have come to know the truth and then reject it.

Quote:Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matthew 7:21-23

Iniquity = lawlessness; the utter disregard for God's law

Did not Jesus say that the Apostles names were written in the book of life? Judas was included in that, but he rejected the deity of Christ.

Quote:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. - Revelation 22:19

So, a person can be saved, and yet, not be part of The Elect?  Basically, the non-Elect consists of those persons who were never saved to begin with, or those persons who were saved but later on forfeited their salvation?  How about infants who die in infancy and little children?  Are they part of The Elect?

Tl;dr.

Did anyone bring up yet that 'salvation' from whatever is a direct result of the actions of the entity who demands we beg for salvation?

(July 9, 2017 at 11:11 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(July 9, 2017 at 10:26 am)Huggy74 Wrote: Because they have come to know the truth and then reject it.



Iniquity = lawlessness; the utter disregard for God's law

Did not Jesus say that the Apostles names were written in the book of life? Judas was included in that, but he rejected the deity of Christ.

So, a person can be saved, and yet, not be part of The Elect? 

Yes.

(July 9, 2017 at 11:11 am)Jehanne Wrote: Basically, the non-Elect consists of those persons who were never saved to begin with, or those persons who were saved but later on forfeited their salvation? 

Not necessarily.

You have many religious organizations that practice their own traditions and reject the teaching of the Bible.

Let's take the Catholic church for example.
The Catholic church baptizes in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit despite the fact that the bible commands to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, you wont find anywhere where in the Bible where people were baptized under the titles of Father Son, and Holy Spirit.

Quote:Acts 2
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This doesn't mean that a Catholic can't be saved, they just aren't part of the elect, because the bible states that it's not possible for the elect to be deceived. The will live according to the word of God, not some denomination.

(July 9, 2017 at 11:11 am)Jehanne Wrote: How about infants who die in infancy and little children?  Are they part of The Elect?

Only God knows who the "elect' are since he is the one that elected them.

Little children go to heaven, they aren't held accountable for sin, I believe the age one is held accountable is around 16.

Well the 9/11 murderers are in heaven now with loads of virgins `i guess then, coz' scripture says so.

Sorry, forgot I don't have the correct deity hotline for this thread.

(July 10, 2017 at 3:51 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 9, 2017 at 11:11 am)Jehanne Wrote: So, a person can be saved, and yet, not be part of The Elect? 

Yes.

(July 9, 2017 at 11:11 am)Jehanne Wrote: Basically, the non-Elect consists of those persons who were never saved to begin with, or those persons who were saved but later on forfeited their salvation? 

Not necessarily.

You have many religious organizations that practice their own traditions and reject the teaching of the Bible.

Let's take the Catholic church for example.
The Catholic church baptizes in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit despite the fact that the bible commands to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, you wont find anywhere where in the Bible where people were baptized under the titles of Father Son, and Holy Spirit.

Quote:Acts 2
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This doesn't mean that a Catholic can't be saved, they just aren't part of the elect, because the bible states that it's not possible for the elect to be deceived. The will live according to the word of God, not some denomination.

(July 9, 2017 at 11:11 am)Jehanne Wrote: How about infants who die in infancy and little children?  Are they part of The Elect?

Only God knows who the "elect' are since he is the one that elected them.

Little children go to heaven, they aren't held accountable for sin, I believe the age one is held accountable is around 16.

So, the Saved set is a proper subset of the Elect set then?

As for the Catholic Church & Baptism, many Protestants (such as Anglicans) baptize using the Trinitarian formula ("In the name of the Father..."); are you saying that they are wrong, also?  And, why should we believe your interpretation of the Bible as opposed to someone else's?  And, does not the end of the Gospel of Matthew state to "Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"? (Matthew 28:19)