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(July 18, 2017 at 9:23 am)Godscreated Wrote: Christ will not have to be announced by anything other than a trumpet blast at His second coming. When He does come everyone will know it, all at the same moment.
GC
Wow! Since when do Christians pay attention to prophecies about messiah? I mean that really. For Christians prophecies were always unimportant technicalities because then even their Jesus would be fake messiah considering that OT prophecies of the messiah's arrival would usher in: the end of sin, the end of suffering, peace and tranquility, one creed and one religion, the resurrection of the dead, the gathering of the ten tribes under a Davidic king, building of the future temple etc. none of that happened and yet do I need to remind you how many people, including yourself, think this Jesus was indeed messiah prophesied by OT.
The apostles used the OT prophecies to preach about the Messiah. There preaching in this manner lead many thousands to the Messiah and they were Jews including priests. The rest of what you put forward is to happen at and after the second coming.
FM Wrote:Even when writers of Jesus myth try to fulfill prophecies about Jesus coming, like Elijah's coming was to precede the messiah's arrival, write themselves into a corner and fail, because John the Baptist flatly stated he was not the predicted Elijah.
This was to reference that John was a representative of who Elijah was.
FM Wrote:Not to mention that Jesus himself was really bad prophesying himself, like one about our times when he said "And they shall hear my voice and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." However, after two thousand years we have over 40 000 separate Christian denominations. That hardly sounds like one fold and one shepherd.
Christ is the one shepherd and the worlds Christians are His one flock.
FM Wrote:Or Revelations 3:11 Jesus said, "Behold, I come quickly." After two thousand years Jesus is yet to come and by any measure that is hardly "quickly."
When one is an eternal being 2000 years is less than a second.
FM Wrote:Or when he said "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". He was not actually put in the earth, much less the heart of the earth and much less time.
He was in a tomb, meaning He was in the belly and/or heart of the earth.
[/quote]
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
July 19, 2017 at 4:35 am (This post was last modified: July 19, 2017 at 4:39 am by Huggy Bear.)
(July 18, 2017 at 9:42 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:
(July 18, 2017 at 6:19 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Except the scripture you referenced made no mention of when the second coming was to take place.
1 John 2:18
Nice edit: it says "last hour" from the site link. In fact most bible text says last hour or end time. So, it's changed in yours to "last time" because the prediction didn't happen and the writers had to scramble a correction. : http://biblehub.com/1_john/2-18.htm
So, "last hour" or "end time" is the most sited. But wait, maybe "hour" and "end" as a measure of time meant something different back then, like thousands of years. Or maybe the word of god need to be changed to an ambiguous "time" so that man could understand better cause an all knowing god just don't communicate to well. Naughty naughty men changing gods holy words. Then, it never really was much of a god.
Quote:The modern English word hour is a development of the Anglo-Norman houre and Middle English ure, first attested in the 13th century. It displaced the Old English "tide" (Old English: tīd, "time") and "stound" (stund, "span of time"). The Anglo-Norman term was a borrowing of Old French ure, a variant of ore, which derived from Latin hōra and Greek hṓrā (ὥρα). Like Old English tīd and stund, hṓrā was originally a vaguer word for any span of time, including seasons and years. Its Proto-Indo-European root has been reconstructed as *yeh₁- ("year, summer"), making hour distantly cognate with year.
*emphasis mine*
Again, that scripture never referenced a specific time period.
July 19, 2017 at 6:31 am (This post was last modified: July 19, 2017 at 6:47 am by Fake Messiah.)
(July 19, 2017 at 3:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: This was to reference that John was a representative of who Elijah was.
Not according to Jesus. In Matthew 11:14 Jesus says J.B. is the Elijah. Not representative, but Elijah himself and yet in John 1:21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”
But I guess you know more then Jesus.
(July 19, 2017 at 3:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: Christ is the one shepherd and the worlds Christians are His one flock.
Oh, too bad no one told this to Catholics and Protestants in Ireland they might stop killing each other over "right" Jesus. For sure then the massacre in Greysteel, at Halloween 1993 could have been avoided when Protestants bursted into a Catholic pub, shouted "trick or treat," and opened fire, killing 8 and wounding 13. Or all over Christian history where millions of people were killed by Christians because they were "wrong" Christians like the Cathari and the Waldensians with pope's famous blessing "Kill them all; God will know his own." and all those Catholic-Protestant wars, just the Thirty Years War in the 1600s, killed half the population of Germany. So this is one blatant lie you're telling.
(July 19, 2017 at 3:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: When one is an eternal being 2000 years is less than a second.
Or maybe just a desperate to delude yourself in order to believe that Jesus was legit god. Like I told you he made many false prophecies like being in Earth for 3 days and nights and yet he did not. Or lying his ass off to the thief that tomorrow he will be with him in paradise when he is supposed to be in ground. I mean this is not just an ordinary Jesus lie like when he said that mustard seed is the smallest one in the world, but he is actually lying to the dying man, giving him false hopes. How much lower can you get from that.
Even Jesus himself he is a cheat. In Mark he simply asks 10:18. "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Here we have a clear-cut statement by Jesus that his character is flawed and that he is not to be considered the model of propriety. We have it from his own mouth. What more could one want?
So no wonder he lies, like to the thief on the cross, or to the anyone around him like in John 7:8-10 he told some people to go to a feast and that he would not be going. The text states that he later went up, not in public, but in private. Or when he "predicted" in Matthew 17:12-13 that he will die in the same manner John the Baptist was killed. Needles to say one was beheaded in prison while the other one crucified.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
July 19, 2017 at 7:45 am (This post was last modified: July 19, 2017 at 7:47 am by Huggy Bear.)
(July 19, 2017 at 6:31 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(July 19, 2017 at 3:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: This was to reference that John was a representative of who Elijah was.
Not according to Jesus. In Matthew 11:14 Jesus says J.B. is the Elijah. Not representative, but Elijah himself and yet in John 1:21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”
But I guess you know more then Jesus.
(July 19, 2017 at 3:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: Christ is the one shepherd and the worlds Christians are His one flock.
Oh, too bad no one told this to Catholics and Protestants in Ireland they might stop killing each other over "right" Jesus. For sure then the massacre in Greysteel, at Halloween 1993 could have been avoided when Protestants bursted into a Catholic pub, shouted "trick or treat," and opened fire, killing 8 and wounding 13. Or all over Christian history where millions of people were killed by Christians because they were "wrong" Christians like the Cathari and the Waldensians with pope's famous blessing "Kill them all; God will know his own." and all those Catholic-Protestant wars, just the Thirty Years War in the 1600s, killed half the population of Germany. So this is one blatant lie you're telling.
(July 19, 2017 at 3:49 am)Godscreated Wrote: When one is an eternal being 2000 years is less than a second.
Or maybe just a desperate to delude yourself in order to believe that Jesus was legit god. Like I told you he made many false prophecies like being in Earth for 3 days and nights and yet he did not. Or lying his ass off to the thief that tomorrow he will be with him in paradise when he is supposed to be in ground. I mean this is not just an ordinary Jesus lie like when he said that mustard seed is the smallest one in the world, but he is actually lying to the dying man, giving him false hopes. How much lower can you get from that.
Even Jesus himself he is a cheat. In Mark he simply asks 10:18. "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Here we have a clear-cut statement by Jesus that his character is flawed and that he is not to be considered the model of propriety. We have it from his own mouth. What more could one want?
So no wonder he lies, like to the thief on the cross, or to the anyone around him like in John 7:8-10 he told some people to go to a feast and that he would not be going. The text states that he later went up, not in public, but in private. Or when he "predicted" in Matthew 17:12-13 that he will die in the same manner John the Baptist was killed. Needles to say one was beheaded in prison while the other one crucified.
So you're just going to ignore my reply to you and address to GC instead? Am I to assume you have no response?
(July 18, 2017 at 9:42 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Nice edit: it says "last hour" from the site link. In fact most bible text says last hour or end time. So, it's changed in yours to "last time" because the prediction didn't happen and the writers had to scramble a correction. : http://biblehub.com/1_john/2-18.htm
So, "last hour" or "end time" is the most sited. But wait, maybe "hour" and "end" as a measure of time meant something different back then, like thousands of years. Or maybe the word of god need to be changed to an ambiguous "time" so that man could understand better cause an all knowing god just don't communicate to well. Naughty naughty men changing gods holy words. Then, it never really was much of a god.
Quote:The modern English word hour is a development of the Anglo-Norman houre and Middle English ure, first attested in the 13th century. It displaced the Old English "tide" (Old English: tīd, "time") and "stound" (stund, "span of time"). The Anglo-Norman term was a borrowing of Old French ure, a variant of ore, which derived from Latin hōra and Greek hṓrā (ὥρα). Like Old English tīd and stund, hṓrā was originally a vaguer word for any span of time, including seasons and years. Its Proto-Indo-European root has been reconstructed as *yeh₁- ("year, summer"), making hour distantly cognate with year.
*emphasis mine*
Again, that scripture never referenced a specific time period.
Nice dodge. What, gods words can't stand on their own?
July 19, 2017 at 9:38 am (This post was last modified: July 19, 2017 at 9:39 am by Fake Messiah.)
(July 19, 2017 at 7:45 am)Huggy74 Wrote: So you're just going to ignore my reply to you and address to GC instead? Am I to assume you have no response?
Oh the response
(July 19, 2017 at 7:45 am)Huggy74 Wrote: this means those prophecies you mentioned have still yet to be completed, which will happen during his second coming.
Actually you are avoiding to pin OT "prophecies" to Jesus by delaying it to his 2nd coming, then 3rd, then 4th, then 5th and so on. So there is slight difference between you and people that already chose their Christos among the ones that claim they're him, since they also obviously delayed the prophecies to his 197th coming. I mean everybody can be a messiah under those circumstances.
As a side question if you had to choose to follow one Jesus from the 1st post which one would you choose?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
Quote:Τι ώρα...;
tee ora
Ώρα (οra) means both ‘time’ and ‘hour’. To say ‘o’clock’, you use the number, such as οχτώ (ohto), eight, followed by η ώρα (ee ora), literally ‘the hour’.
Quote:τι ώρα είναι; = What time is it?
Η ώρα είναι οκτώ. = The time is eight o'clock.
As I keep trying to explain to you, simply saying "time" is not specific, you need a number to quantify HOW MUCH TIME! which you claim the Bible states and so far you've provided no scripture to prove your point.
(July 19, 2017 at 9:38 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(July 19, 2017 at 7:45 am)Huggy74 Wrote: So you're just going to ignore my reply to you and address to GC instead? Am I to assume you have no response?
Oh the response
(July 19, 2017 at 7:45 am)Huggy74 Wrote: this means those prophecies you mentioned have still yet to be completed, which will happen during his second coming.
Actually you are avoiding to pin OT "prophecies" to Jesus by delaying it to his 2nd coming, then 3rd, then 4th, then 5th and so on. So there is slight difference between you and people that already chose their Christos among the ones that claim they're him, since they also obviously delayed the prophecies to his 197th coming. I mean everybody can be a messiah under those circumstances.
As a side question if you had to choose to follow one Jesus from the 1st post which one would you choose?
Except the second coming is In the scriptures, there is nothing about any 3rd or 4th coming, so I don't know where you get that Idea.
Quote:Zechariah 12
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Quote:Zechariah 13
6 And one shall say unto him, ‘What are these wounds in thine hands?’ Then he shall answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’
The Above is Old testament prophecy, Upon Jesus second coming he will appear to the Jews and fulfill all that the Bible said the Messiah was supposed to do for the Jewish people, but they will notice that he has wounds on him. When Jesus states that he received the wounds "in the house of my friends" (meaning his fellow Jews), they will realize that they crucified their Messiah.
Quote:John 19
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
Quote:Τι ώρα...;
tee ora
Ώρα (οra) means both ‘time’ and ‘hour’. To say ‘o’clock’, you use the number, such as οχτώ (ohto), eight, followed by η ώρα (ee ora), literally ‘the hour’.
Quote:τι ώρα είναι; = What time is it?
Η ώρα είναι οκτώ. = The time is eight o'clock.
As I keep trying to explain to you, simply saying "time" is not specific, you need a number to quantify HOW MUCH TIME! which you claim the Bible states and so far you've provided no scripture to prove your point.
The only person not willing to accept is you because it does not conform to your fantasy. Twist!
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
Quote:The apostles used the OT prophecies to preach about the Messiah. There preaching in this manner lead many thousands to the Messiah and they were Jews including priests. The rest of what you put forward is to happen at and after the second coming.
Poor deluded G-C. Still thinks his silly shit is real.
What did Jews expect the moschiach to accomplish?
Quote:The mashiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5).
He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1).
He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18).
He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).
Jesus, like a piss-poor batter went 0 for 4. And there wasn't any second bite at the apple. The real messiah was supposed to get it all done in one fell swoop. This "second coming" horseshit was a later development when early jesus freaks realized their godboy had fucked up and wasn't coming back any time soon.
