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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:38 pm
(July 27, 2017 at 2:20 pm)Shell B Wrote: Neo, I agree mostly. I'd add the caveat that if a certain group of people did affect the battle-readiness of a unit, but that group is able to perform other duties, they should be able to serve in those capacities. The military needs pencil pushers.
And the nature of the military is changing too. A drone does care who's at the controls. Nevertheless there may be other considerations - people with any condition, from a compromised immune system to suicidal tendencies, shouldn't be serving if their condition requires disproportionate medical monitoring. Everything is fine when people are on a base. But the military needs to plan for the most extreme circumstances of war, such as when troops (even a drone operator or pencil pusher) are trapped behind enemy lines for long periods of time, hungry, exhausted, exposed to harsh environmental conditions, and without medical supplies or support. Maybe, someone is fine to serve as long as he has a steady supply of Zoloft (or whatever), but what about when the meds run out and he's still responsible for military grade weapons.
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:42 pm
(July 27, 2017 at 2:32 pm)Shell B Wrote: (July 27, 2017 at 2:23 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Accept studies have been done and nothing of significance was found .
I agree. I don't see any problem, except having the surgery during a time when you'd be needed for active duty. I just mean generally speaking, since battle-readiness has been proffered as a reason for a ban. My argument was, even if that were true, it doesn't warrant a ban, as they could do other jobs.
Fair enough
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:45 pm
That's why I think this question is best left up for our military leaders to decide. There are things that we as civilians who have never gone to war or examined all the possibilities can understand. We just have to trust that they will form their decision objectively based on what is best for the effectivrness of the military, not based on political correctness or on prejudice against trans folks.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:48 pm
(This post was last modified: July 27, 2017 at 2:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 27, 2017 at 2:38 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: And the nature of the military is changing too. A drone does care who's at the controls. Nevertheless there may be other considerations - people with any condition, from a compromised immune system to suicidal tendencies, shouldn't be serving if their condition requires disproportionate medical monitoring. They go on profile until they've been cleared.
Quote:Everything is fine when people are on a base. But the military needs to plan for the most extreme circumstances of war, such as when troops (even a drone operator or pencil pusher) are trapped behind enemy lines for long periods of time, hungry, exhausted, exposed to harsh environmental conditions, and without medical supplies or support. Maybe, someone is fine to serve as long as he has a steady supply of Zoloft (or whatever), but what about when the meds run out and he's still responsible for military grade weapons.
That's a scenario that will only be faced by 1/12th of our armed forces at the worst, and only temporarily. Meanwhile, combat arms -do- take antidepressants when they need to - particularly in order to perform their duties. If "the meds run out" he's about to die. That's the only way that can happen.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:50 pm
(This post was last modified: July 27, 2017 at 2:51 pm by Shell B.)
(July 27, 2017 at 2:38 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (July 27, 2017 at 2:20 pm)Shell B Wrote: Neo, I agree mostly. I'd add the caveat that if a certain group of people did affect the battle-readiness of a unit, but that group is able to perform other duties, they should be able to serve in those capacities. The military needs pencil pushers.
And the nature of the military is changing too. A drone does care who's at the controls. Nevertheless there may be other considerations - people with any condition, from a compromised immune system to suicidal tendencies, shouldn't be serving if their condition requires disproportionate medical monitoring. Everything is fine when people are on a base. But the military needs to plan for the most extreme circumstances of war, such as when troops (even a drone operator or pencil pusher) are trapped behind enemy lines for long periods of time, hungry, exhausted, exposed to harsh environmental conditions, and without medical supplies or support. Maybe, someone is fine to serve as long as he has a steady supply of Zoloft (or whatever), but what about when the meds run out and he's still responsible for military grade weapons.
I was mostly referring to permanent stateside posts. Not everyone gets deployed. As for mentally ill people, that's an entirely different story. There are too many different disorders to have a meaningful conversation about it in a broad sense.
(July 27, 2017 at 2:45 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We just have to trust that they will form their decision objectively based on what is best for the effectivrness of the military, not based on political correctness or on prejudice against trans folks.
I'm never going to "just trust" anyone in a position of power. They're going to have to prove they can be trusted first. They haven't yet.
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:52 pm
The service is, essentially, a factory for -producing- mental disorders in any case. They take the term cluster to a whole new level. If we gave every joe with issues the boot wed run out of joes faster than you can say substance abuse.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:53 pm
I see no reason why being trans would stop anyone from being deployed with the same efficiency as any other troop. It's not debilitating in any way and wouldn't stop anyone from performing their duties just like everyone else.
I don't believe you. Get over it.
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:54 pm
(July 27, 2017 at 2:53 pm)Jesster Wrote: I see no reason why being trans would stop anyone from being deployed with the same efficiency as any other troop. It's not debilitating in any way and wouldn't stop anyone from performing their duties just like everyone else.
Trump, however, was focusing on the health care aspect provided by the military, claiming that the military could not afford to provide health care benefits for transitioning transsexuals.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:54 pm
(This post was last modified: July 27, 2017 at 2:55 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
Response to shell:
Oh I know. I guess I'm kind of biased for military members since I'm married to one and surrounded by them, so there's a sense of trust there. 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: No Trans In The Military Says Trump
July 27, 2017 at 2:57 pm
.................it's not the military calling for a ban.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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