(August 2, 2017 at 8:09 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: How can an 'ultraconservative' Catholic cotton to a twice divorced and thrice married adulterer ??


What am I not getting here ??

Pope Francis wants to change centuries of Catholic teaching without actually claiming that anything is "changing"; basically, any Catholic who disagrees with Francis on anything is an "ultra-conservative".  I give the "ultra-conservatives" credit for at least being consistent with respect to their religious beliefs.

Do you give the jihadists the same credit?

(August 3, 2017 at 1:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Do you give the jihadists the same credit?

Yes.

Birds of a feather.  Just remember when catholicks were running things we had the Inquisition.  They are not heroes.

(August 3, 2017 at 1:20 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Birds of a feather.  Just remember when catholicks were running things we had the Inquisition.  They are not heroes.

There were multiple motives a float during that time -- political power & control over the ignorant masses, husbands' control over their wives & families, stability of the monarchies, vassalage and feudalism, a high birth rate (as there existed a high death rate -- 3 out of 4 kiddos did not survive to reproductive age), fielding a large enough army to defend kingdoms, both earthly and "heavenly", etc.  But, at the heart of it all was Dante's vision (which predated him, of course) of the Earth at the center of the cosmos with heavenly spheres above and hellish spheres below, and so, the Inquisitions were viewed as being institutions of mercy.  It was reasoned that no rational person would choose heresy just as no rational person would choose amputation, and so, the clerics who worked those jobs believed that they were saving souls, either those of the wayward who had stumbled into heresy, and especially, those other innocent Christians (Catholics) who the heretic would deceive with the Devil's lies, leading both to the everlasting fires & torments of eternal Hell.  Burning someone alive at the stake was the final act of "mercy", whereby the condemned could gain some sort of "salutary repentance" which would allow them to pass into Purgatory (and, eventually, Heaven, the Beatific Vision of endless, eternal bliss), or that failing, would at least prepare the reprobate's soul for Hell, making the transition, as it were, "easier".

Our mandate as atheists is to point out when they are "doing it wrong" as it evidences their paucity of sincerity of belief.

I don't think there is much chance of a 'slacker' type believer finding anything in the atheist's quiver as convincing as God's Lake of Fire in Hell, as if we're worried about igniting a sudden lurch towards an Inquisition in any regard.

(August 3, 2017 at 1:50 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Our mandate as atheists is to point out when they are "doing it wrong" as it evidences their paucity of sincerity of belief.

I don't think there is much chance of a 'slacker' type believer finding anything in the atheist's  quiver as convincing as God's Lake of Fire in Hell, as if we're worried about igniting a sudden lurch towards an Inquisition in any regard.

We need to tell them the truth, that is, this life is the only one they got and that they have much, much better things to do than to waste their precious, finite time on the non-existent.

Quote:There were multiple motives a float during that time -- political power & control over the ignorant masses,

Don't pretend that now is any different.  The whole world is not like Western Europe.  The direction the US goes is far from determined.  I can see us backsliding into a third-world hellhole.

(August 3, 2017 at 2:07 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:There were multiple motives a float during that time -- political power & control over the ignorant masses,

Don't pretend that now is any different.  The whole world is not like Western Europe.  The direction the US goes is far from determined.  I can see us backsliding into a third-world hellhole.

If it's one thing that I have learned from my naïve study of history it is that societies will follow the direction set by their intelligentsia, the Academy.  When intellectuals (such as Thomas Aquinas) supported burning heretics alive, society complied.  When intellectuals stopped supporting the practice, it faded.

It works both ways.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/us/pa....html?_r=0

Quote:Pastors Praise Anti-Gay Massacre in Orlando, Prompting Outrage

Quote:“The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die,” Roger Jimenez, a Sacramento preacher, exhorted his congregants on June 12, the day of the assault. “The tragedy is — I’m kind of upset that he didn’t finish the job! Because these people are predators! They are abusers!”

The question is will the trickle grow into a torrent.