As we saw in Charlottesville, it is quite clear that rank Nazism and white supremacy are far from a thing of the past.

They always have existed and have been lurking on Stormfront.com and other such places.

Now however they are out in the open and apparently mad as Hell.

Could their new presence lead to some change in the Republican party? Despite it's appeals saying it is for Hispanics,women and people of other races, it quite clearly is the White Christian party and the default party for racists.

Not all republicans are racist necessarily, but racist feel at home in it for some reason  .

Will we see a change in republican party platform to accommodate its more bigoted members? Or will there be splinter parties, parties like Golden Dawn and other neo fascist parties in Germany and eastern Europe today?

The Grim Old Party doesn't give a fuck who votes for them.

It means that we need to take a very close look into exactly what "religious freedom" should be in our society. I don't think we have it right yet.

People were predicting a break or reformation of the GOP years ago. Didn't happen then won't happen now. As long as the racists show up to vote en masse then I don't think they'll have a problem with it

(August 31, 2017 at 5:26 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: It means that we need to take a very close look into exactly what "religious freedom" should be in our society. I don't think we have it right yet.

What does Charlottsville have to do with religious freedom? 

To answer the OP, it just means that racism is alive and well. I think there will always be racist people in the world, but perhaps better education, discussion, and awareness will help. Simply calling someone a racist and checking out will make it worse I think.

(August 31, 2017 at 6:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 31, 2017 at 5:26 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: It means that we need to take a very close look into exactly what "religious freedom" should be in our society. I don't think we have it right yet.

What does Charlottsville have to do with religious freedom? 

To answer the OP, it just means that racism is alive and well. I think there will always be racist people in the world, but perhaps better education, discussion, and awareness will help. Simply calling someone a racist and checking out will make it worse I think.

Education I'm down with. But what do you mean by "discussion" and "awareness"? I'm aware racists exists, and they're aware that the folks they hate exist. What's to discuss? The price of tea in China? How they feel encumbered because statues to generals who fought defending slavery are no longer popular?

Maybe the discussion could be about the 14th Amendment; I think it should start there. If you're an American citizen, stand up for equality.

/Discussion

(August 31, 2017 at 9:06 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 31, 2017 at 6:12 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: What does Charlottsville have to do with religious freedom? 

To answer the OP, it just means that racism is alive and well. I think there will always be racist people in the world, but perhaps better education, discussion, and awareness will help. Simply calling someone a racist and checking out will make it worse I think.

Education I'm down with. But what do you mean by "discussion" and "awareness"? I'm aware racists exists, and they're aware that the folks they hate exist. What's to discuss? The price of tea in China? How they feel encumbered because statues to generals who fought defending slavery are no longer popular?

Maybe the discussion could be about the 14th Amendment; I think it should start there. If you're an American citizen, stand up for equality.

/Discussion

I meant awareness that racism exists and how to deal with it and address it, etc. I guess it goes hand in hand with education in that sense. 

As for discussion, I'm thinking more in lines of like... if you're hanging out with a friend and they say or do something racist, maybe start a discussion with them about it. Explain to them why you don't think it's right, ask them some tough questions. I think that's more productive than calling them a racist and leaving.

(August 31, 2017 at 5:22 pm)CatholicDefender Wrote: As we saw in Charlottesville, it is quite clear that rank Nazism and white supremacy are far from a thing of the past.

They always have existed and have been lurking on Stormfront.com and other such places.

Now however they are out in the open and apparently mad as Hell.

Could their new presence lead to some change in the Republican party? Despite it's appeals saying it is for Hispanics,women and people of other races, it quite clearly is the White Christian party and the default party for racists.

Not all republicans are racist necessarily, but racist feel at home in it for some reason  .

Will we see a change in republican party platform to accommodate its more bigoted members? Or will there be splinter parties, parties like Golden Dawn and other neo fascist parties in Germany and eastern Europe today?

Racism does exist in both parties. I have a liberal Redneck friend who lives in Oklahoma, he has family members who vote democrat but use the "n" word. It is not impossible. But when you take a larger national sample on average the party that appeals to racists and White Nationalists leans mostly to the GOP. 

But this is a long time in the making and started with Nixon's Southern Strategy. prior to that the GOP were actually more like democrats socially and democrats appealed to racists back then. The parties basically flipped on social issues since then.

The GOP will never gain any big chunk of the minority vote the way they run campaigns. Cuban migrants in Miami are really their only go to minority considering the Cubans who flee hate Cuban communism. Which to me is stupid because they fail to see that liberals are not calling for an economic Cuba here. That is simply cold war crap they fall for. 

My liberal Redneck friend however has made some points about where liberals fail to expand their map outside cities and suburbs, and we do fail at that. Liberals don't do a good enough job appealing to more rural states. 

45 won not the popular votes, but won by motivating just enough of his far right bigoted base, along with enough rust belt voters in swing states, who may not be bigots themselves but were tired of the status quo. 

GOP are masters at getting their voters to vote against their own economic interests, social issues and cold war slurs are how they win. If they were forced to only talk about wallet issues in adds and campaigns or debates, they would lose. Liberals simply need a way to organize better and stop allowing the GOP to control the narrative.

I'm pretty sure people are aware racism exists in America. Discussing how to deal with it ... well, that's a bit of a slog, don't you think? I've had tough discussions with friends about racist things they've said. You know what didn't happen? They did not recant their racism. It doesn't work that way except in very, very few instances.

I think one thing we can carry away from Charlottesville is that the radical right feel emboldened enough to publicly march under a swastika flag. At that point, I think discussion is useless hand-wringing, because these are people who are not interested in discussions. I think another thing we can carry away from Charlottesville is that these neo-NZis are willing to resort to violence as well as violent imagery in order to gain their political ends. That being the case, that once more renders discussion nugatory.

I don't walk away from the discussion, I'm just not under any illusions about its potential for productivity. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

(September 1, 2017 at 2:21 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'm pretty sure people are aware racism exists in America. Discussing how to deal with it ... well, that's a bit of a slog, don't you think? I've had tough discussions with friends about racist things they've said. You know what didn't happen? They did not recant their racism. It doesn't work that way except in very, very few instances.

I think one thing we can carry away from Charlottesville is that the radical right feel emboldened enough to publicly march under a swastika flag. At that point, I think discussion is useless hand-wringing, because these are people who are not interested in discussions. I think another thing we can carry away from Charlottesville is that these neo-NZis are willing to resort to violence as well as violent imagery in order to gain their political ends. That being the case, that once more renders discussion nugatory.

I don't walk away from the discussion, I'm just not under any illusions about its potential for productivity. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Yep, there was a time when America could have ignored these sickos when they were under their rocks. The problem is now that there is an asshole in the White House who has for the past 5 years dog whistled at them. I'm only hoping between Heather's unfortunate death, and the overwhelming support of Texas after Harvey, the swing voters and moderates on the right will be increasingly less likely to allow more embolden of these sickos.

There is no polite discussion to be had with a White Nationalist. It would be like a Jew trying to convince a Nazi not to gas them. But you can challenge media and politicians not to pander to them. Politicians set the tone.