(September 14, 2017 at 12:40 am)Losty Wrote: @CL- I wouldn't be too offended about the kudos. You never know why a person might give kudos. It doesn't mean they agree with everything said in the post.

Meh, I wouldn't give any credit to a post where someone says they hate an entire group of people and would rather see them die than teach their kids their faith, even if he said something later on that I agreed with. He would have lost me long before then. But, thats just me i guess...

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(September 14, 2017 at 12:50 am)Astonished Wrote:

(September 14, 2017 at 12:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I never said I would put you on ignore.

And yeah, if/when I have a child I fully plan on teaching him or her about my faith... just as my parents taught me. So I guess you can add to the list of people you would rather see dead.

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Ok, then what is the difference between teaching and indoctrinating in this case?

One is synonymous with brainwashing. I thought that was a commonly understood facet of indoctrination. This ignorance on your part is what alarms me so greatly about even moderation in this topic.

And you aren't one of the two I was referring to that had put me on ignore, I was referring to Neo-Craptastic and Gullible Cretin. I extended them the same middle finger and on the rare occasion I see the content of their posts because someone quoted them, I'm never disappointed that they're as vapid and proving our points as always.

Can you be more specific about what you would consider "brainwashing" vs just teaching your kid about your faith?

I just assumed people kudosed for the video. I didn't see the video myself.

I just kudos Losty for kudos sake.  Can't say I've read a post of hers in a couple of years.

(September 14, 2017 at 1:08 am)vorlon13 Wrote: I just kudos Losty for kudos sake.  Can't say I've read a post of hers in a couple of years.

I wanted to say you were rood, but I just love the kudos too much to be offended xD

Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not a dictionary, go look it up, but I should have thought, and hoped, that it's fairly fucking self-explanatory. I don't need to constantly be given more reasons to see you as a robot with severe bugs in your programming. Your intellectual laziness is your lookout, until it starts to affect others, which is what pisses me off. When a condition like that is contagious only because of what you're not prevented from doing to others, that's a problem for the whole human race.

But I'll humor you, one last time. In my view, which I would assume is fairly commonplace among rational skeptics, indoctrination involves the systematic censoring of anything that contradicts a biblical worldview, propaganda-like tactics to prevent victims from ever questioning their limited teachings, denying without reason facts that are demonstrable no matter how solidly presented or explained, never permitted to accept anything that does not fit in with a worldview they are not free to develop on their own in the first place, threatened with force or implied threats to encourage a fearful coercion so as to stifle independent thought or questioning of whatever it is they're being taught (including threats of financial support being cut off or outright social ostracism), teaching them WHAT to think and never how to think, being taught to mistrust and/or never listen at all to anyone who disagrees, being taught to believe in things that are flatly contradicted by basic knowledge of reality and to require little to no evidence for that which they are taught...

That good enough? I bet you barely fit 10% of that description yourself, which I think we can both agree is a good thing. You're not the kind of Ham sandwich I'm worried about.

(September 14, 2017 at 1:06 am)Losty Wrote: I just assumed people kudosed for the video. I didn't see the video myself.

It's a good video, I recommend it. I'm not always so fond of Rachel's stuff, sometimes it's a bit boring, but this topic was perfect and she did a really great job presenting it.

Can you tell your personal views?

I'm not a fucking dictionary!

Yea...like I said...douche

(September 13, 2017 at 10:01 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 9:00 pm)Astonished Wrote:



So...look, I hate religious folk, that's no secret, and it's not that I want them to get run over by a bus, but...I'd rather see that than see them indoctrinate one more child. The bible is already obscene enough as it is and anyone reading it straight to a child should be institutionalized, but to actually try (and fail) to turn it into a presentable children's book is...is there a word for worse than obscene?

Someone posts saying they hate religious people and would rather see us get killed than teach our own kids about our faith, and 2 others kudos this??

You're not teaching them about religion though are you. You're forcing them into belief before they are old enough to understand the ridiculosness and falsity of the belief.

Children get indoctrinated that young (with lies and evasions, not just in the bible belt, I've seen the catholic church's curriculum in Ireland it teaches stuff only slightly less ridiculos than creatardism) because its the only chance the religions have for their bullshit to stick. Luckily in the modern day it's not sticking so well.

(September 14, 2017 at 1:15 am)Astonished Wrote: Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not a dictionary, go look it up, but I should have thought, and hoped, that it's fairly fucking self-explanatory. I don't need to constantly be given more reasons to see you as a robot with severe bugs in your programming. Your intellectual laziness is your lookout, until it starts to affect others, which is what pisses me off. When a condition like that is contagious only because of what you're not prevented from doing to others, that's a problem for the whole human race.

But I'll humor you, one last time. In my view, which I would assume is fairly commonplace among rational skeptics, indoctrination involves the systematic censoring of anything that contradicts a biblical worldview, propaganda-like tactics to prevent victims from ever questioning their limited teachings, denying without reason facts that are demonstrable no matter how solidly presented or explained, never permitted to accept anything that does not fit in with a worldview they are not free to develop on their own in the first place, threatened with force or implied threats to encourage a fearful coercion so as to stifle independent thought or questioning of whatever it is they're being taught (including threats of financial support being cut off or outright social ostracism), teaching them WHAT to think and never how to think, being taught to mistrust and/or never listen at all to anyone who disagrees, being taught to believe in things that are flatly contradicted by basic knowledge of reality and to require little to no evidence for that which they are taught...

That good enough? I bet you barely fit 10% of that description yourself, which I think we can both agree is a good thing. You're not the kind of Ham sandwich I'm worried about.

I googled the definition of indoctrination, and the results varied slightly. Some where simply "to teach a specific ideology or world view" others were more along the lines of "teaching to accept uncritically". Nothing nearly as specific as the paragraph you wrote above.

Also, you're a really nasty person.

(September 14, 2017 at 12:27 am)Astonished Wrote: I'd ask a parent who claims to be more moderate in their religious views and teaching their children, if your child reached adulthood, concluded you are wrong about everything, expressed their concerns about you believing in it and said in no uncertain terms that you did them no favors by introducing that into their lives, what would you say, what would your reaction be? There are very, very few answers that would not be a cause for concern, and the unfortunate reality is, the ones that aren't are probably in the vast minority.

Well, my mom didn't shit bricks when I told her I rejected her views. A parent myself, I understand that my love for my son goes beyond shared outlooks.

I'm mixed on this . On one hand i would ultimately prefer religions was not taught and it died out. On the other i can't concede that all religion is indoctrination . On the other a great deal of it is and some of it shapes some very repugnant and regressive views.Again on the other short of forming a police state this cannot be stopped.