(May 9, 2009 at 6:20 pm)Ace Wrote: Can you show us your reasoning? Can you show us why you believe Fr0d0?

Not easily Ace. I try to show my reasoning all the time, but there are very many factors, as there are as many reasons for your current standpoint.

The belief bit requires faith.

(May 9, 2009 at 6:27 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(May 9, 2009 at 6:20 pm)Ace Wrote: Can you show us your reasoning? Can you show us why you believe Fr0d0?

Not easily Ace. I try to show my reasoning all the time, but there are very many factors, as there are as many reasons for your current standpoint.

The belief bit requires faith.

I'm glad we are able to chat peacefully.

I would like to explore your ideals and reasoning and so that we can soon better understand each other.

Now, I did look into it before. I looked into religion and faith but it was faith that I found very hard to deal with.
Faith for most or all atheists is a kind of a hard thing to have for a god or gods. It also brings question to which god and why.

Could you share some of the reasons you have for a supreme being?

(May 9, 2009 at 6:04 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Blimey, you're a broken record EvF. THERE IS reason, just you don't make the reasoning where I do.

Evidence has been discounted unless you can counter the logic presented... that you'd need god like measuring tools to view the evidence. If you cannot counter this logic, then you can't keep repeating the evidence line. It's presently debunked.

You have said before that there IS evidence but it's just not EMPIRICAL.

But I'm NOT asking for specifically empirical evidence. I'm asking for ANY evidence. ANY rational reason(s) to believe God actually objectively exits...

WHERE is this evidence?

EvF

(May 9, 2009 at 7:08 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: WHERE is this evidence?

Right so we're establishing that evidence = reasoning

Written down in the Bible. There for you to personally witness if you act on it.

Quote:Written down in the Bible. There for you to personally witness if you act on it

So one single book words, which was written down for a very long time ago at a place were there'nt were almost no knowledge of science if any, is evidence enough? Sounds like your on the fundamentalist side.

fr0d0 can you give me an example of ANY reasoning from the bible, or IOW this NON-Empirical evidence that you speak of - that gives ANY indication whatsoever towards God actually existing in this universe?

Anything other than bare assertions in the bible that could apply to absolutely anything? (and isn't evidence of God any more (or less!) than it is of the FSM).

EvF

(May 10, 2009 at 8:29 am)Giff Wrote:

Quote:Written down in the Bible. There for you to personally witness if you act on it

So one single book words, which was written down for a very long time ago at a place were there'nt were almost no knowledge of science if any, is evidence enough? Sounds like your on the funementalist side.

"No knowledge of science if any" ...and you still think it's about science? LOL

Evidence of WHAT FFS?

I don't consider myself to be fundamentalist. You can think what you like. It doesn't concern me at all. I believe the Bible to be true, if that makes me a fundamentalist in your eyes. I also think evolution holds true. I think Genesis one is allegorical. I think Jesus lived and is the son of God. So hang me.

(May 10, 2009 at 9:48 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: fr0d0 can you give me an example of ANY reasoning from the bible, or IOW this NON-Empirical evidence that you speak of - that gives ANY indication whatsoever towards God actually existing in this universe?

There are examples on every page EvF. Go look for yourself.

Quote:Anything other than bare assertions in the bible that could apply to absolutely anything? (and isn't evidence of God any more (or less!) than it is of the FSM).

You're gonna have to think for yourself EvF. I can't do it for you.

(May 10, 2009 at 10:37 am)fr0d0 Wrote: "No knowledge of science if any" ...and you still think it's about science? LOL

Evidence of WHAT FFS?

I don't consider myself to be fundamentalist. You can think what you like. It doesn't concern me at all. I believe the Bible to be true, if that makes me a fundamentalist in your eyes. I also think evolution holds true. I think Genesis one is allegorical. I think Jesus lived and is the son of God. So hang me.

Hang you? Something I never would do. Just something religious people do to those who don't believe in what they do.

What I mean that at the time the bible was written didn't they have any special knowledge of what was going on around them. Why the sun was rising, why a storm accured, why we die, what is beyond the sky, and so on.

That's why the explained all things with religion. That's why the wrote the bible because that's how they think things were. They didn't write it so people 2000 years later should interputate it in a certain way. The didn't write in any special metaphores or in a way so people needed to really interputate and think to understand it what they meant, or in a way so there where no clear message. They wrote what they meant and wanted to share their view, and share the stories they heared.

I think it's highly irrational to take the bible as something that is true, as any written text from long time ago. Specially when it comes hitorical texts or like this religious texts. It's not locial to read something and take it as truth you have to compare it with something else or think if it's likely what is written.

(May 10, 2009 at 10:37 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You're gonna have to think for yourself EvF. I can't do it for you.

In other words you can't give any example?

Quote:There are examples on every page EvF. Go look for yourself.

So that would be a no then.

In many ways the deeply religious are like politicians in that you can never get a straight answer from them.

Is there any evidence (there's that rude word again) of the existence of a god? No, because if there where then forums like this would not exist.

Right Darwinian.

It's also like Fr0d0 that if there were a god, then we wouldn't need religion.