If a person was a true Christian he would never, ever, pledge allegiance to the flag because to do so violates Yeshua's commandment in Matthew 5:34-37 as well as the rule in Exodus 20:7 about taking the name of God in vain.

IMO the pledge should be reserved for special unique events and not be regurgitated every 15 minutes. So when a politician gets sworn in he could say it or even when a person joins the military or the Slave Patrol.

I for one will never, ever say it again in any setting because I refuse to do what some crazy assed defrocked socialist Baptist minister imposed upon the country.

(October 27, 2017 at 12:02 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: If a person was a true Christian he would never, ever, pledge allegiance to the flag because to do so violates Yeshua's commandment in Matthew 5:34-37 as well as the rule in Exodus 20:7 about taking the name of God in vain.

IMO the pledge should be reserved for special unique events and not be regurgitated every 15 minutes.  So when a politician gets sworn in he could say it or even when a person joins the military or the Slave Patrol.  

I for one will never, ever say it again in any setting because I refuse to do what some crazy assed defrocked socialist Baptist minister imposed upon the country.

Lets not feed them. We all know this is the "True Scotsman" fallacy.

There is no right way to interpret any holy writing of any religion. Holy writings are not like Ikea furniture assemble manuals, "Insert slot a into slot b". 

How one person of one sect of the same religion wishes another person of another sect of the same religion would interpret the same book does not change the fact they are both the same religion.

No different with Sunnis or Shiites. No different than a Tibet Buddhist vs a Chinese Buddhist or Japanese Buddhist. 

The conservative Catholic League is not going to interpret the same bible the same way a liberal Catholic will. The Trump voting rural baptist isn't going to interpret the same writing the same way an Obama voting baptist would.

Your post isn't incorrect. You can always point to their own words and contradict them with the same book. But putting it like that misses the point that with any religion it always depends on the individuals "interpretation" and because there is no one way to do that, that is what allows the theist to cherry pick. Point is, you will find others who will point to other parts of that same book to justify religious patriotism. 

My bigger picture point I frequently bring up as a reminder, is all these different religions and all the sub sects of all these different religions are all arguing the same thing. "I got it right".

It is a defense of a social norm, one sold most of the time to youth by the parents long before they can develop critical thinking skills. 

Humans simply don't understand that our social grouping is evolutionary. Humans don't want to consider that our morality isn't being handed down to us from above by a cosmic sky wizard, nor is it jumping out of old books of mythology. Humans simply justify what they are sold.

(October 26, 2017 at 3:27 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(October 26, 2017 at 3:02 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I served. For what it's worth, I really don't want people standing for the pledge if they don't want to, no matter what the reason. It loses all meaning if you stand for any other reason than to express your patriotism. Standing to meet people's expectations isn't exactly noble.

This.   Whether compelled or coerced via social convention, the oath is rendered effectively meaningless as anything other than a tool to promote so-called "patriotism".

I already swore a meaningful oath to that effect, I certainly don't need to recite a wholly meaningless one, and I won't expect anyone else to either.

It doesn't have to be so nefarious.  I don't like the pledge of allegiance or national anthem at sporting events and calling soldiers 'the best and the brightest.'  It all feels like a 13 year recruiting effort so when kids graduate highschool, more of them will join the military.

The beauty of the strategy, is that there is nothing wrong with the individual actions.  Teaching kids they are a part of a bigger community is a good thing.  Giving a nod to people who serve at a ballgame is a nice gesture.  Not calling soldiers "Dummies who make poor life decisions" seems polite.

So you have these 3 things that are essentially good being manipulated into something negative.  The easy solution for me, is just to have the conversation with my kid about what's happening.  I understand others don't recognize it or are tricked.

That being said, it's probably in my, my kid, and my country's best interest to have a bunch of people getting tricked, signing up, and wandering around in some foreign country for a few years.  So practically speaking, maybe it's a necessity.  I'm sure it was, back when they needed people to go to fight some wars where there was a good chance they'd die.

But this "YOU KNOW WHO ELSE HAD PLEDGES!!! HITLER!!" shit is dumb.  Most of us said the pledge, and I don't think it led to us being compelled to commit too much genocide.   Every country has some goofy patriotic nonsense going on.  Again, a practicality.  You can't have nobody in your country feeling any connection to said country.

(October 27, 2017 at 12:28 pm)wallym Wrote: national anthem at sporting events

Really?
We only have the anthem when the national team is playing (and then you also get the national anthem for the other team)... Or during the Olympics, when one of ours gets a medal.

(October 27, 2017 at 1:07 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(October 27, 2017 at 12:28 pm)wallym Wrote: national anthem at sporting events

Really?
We only have the anthem when the national team is playing (and then you also get the national anthem for the other team)... Or during the Olympics, when one of ours gets a medal.

Apparently, you guys have longer attention spans and don’t need to be reminded which country you inhabit every time you turn around.

That, or you don’t have as aggressive a military recruitment program.

I’ll go with “c”: both.

(October 27, 2017 at 1:07 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(October 27, 2017 at 12:28 pm)wallym Wrote: national anthem at sporting events

Really?
We only have the anthem when the national team is playing (and then you also get the national anthem for the other team)... Or during the Olympics, when one of ours gets a medal.

Your weird patriotic fetish seems to be royalty rather than a song.

(October 27, 2017 at 1:28 pm)wallym Wrote:

(October 27, 2017 at 1:07 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Really?
We only have the anthem when the national team is playing (and then you also get the national anthem for the other team)... Or during the Olympics, when one of ours gets a medal.

Your weird patriotic fetish seems to be royalty rather than a song.

Royalty?
Dude, we had that up until 1910... then it was cast aside, not without some commotion... but it's good, now.
And, for president, the person with the most votes votes, gets the seat.

Not that it's worth much... the Prime Minister is the guy that is the head of the government, in spite of being #3 in the country's hierarchy.

(October 26, 2017 at 10:01 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I wonder why the school "resource officer" ( translation, resident pig ) was summoned to arrest the kid for assault?

This 11 year old was arrested and charged after kicking a trash can!

https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-10/h...6th-grader

Quote:How kicking a trash can became criminal for a 6th grader

Say..... you don't suppose it is because the 11 year old was black, do you?

I think you posted in the wrong thread, Min. This isn't Fucking Cops.

(October 27, 2017 at 2:10 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(October 27, 2017 at 1:28 pm)wallym Wrote: Your weird patriotic fetish seems to be royalty rather than a song.

Royalty?
Dude, we had that up until 1910... then it was cast aside, not without some commotion... but it's good, now.
And, for president, the person with the most votes votes, gets the seat.

Not that it's worth much... the Prime Minister is the guy that is the head of the government, in spite of being #3 in the country's hierarchy.

I didn't mean an actual monarchy.  I just meant you have that old lady you trot around and many brits seem to be crazy about.  And the princesses and dukes, and all that weird stuff.  A big old birthday parade every year too.  Is the queen on your money?  It all seems a bit silly.  

The point I was making though, is that she seems to be a symbol that the folks of England like to rally around.  Rather than a person/position, the US likes flags and songs.

(October 27, 2017 at 5:15 pm)wallym Wrote:

(October 27, 2017 at 2:10 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Royalty?
Dude, we had that up until 1910... then it was cast aside, not without some commotion... but it's good, now.
And, for president, the person with the most votes votes, gets the seat.

Not that it's worth much... the Prime Minister is the guy that is the head of the government, in spite of being #3 in the country's hierarchy.

I didn't mean an actual monarchy.  I just meant you have that old lady you trot around and many brits seem to be crazy about.  And the princesses and dukes, and all that weird stuff.  A big old birthday parade every year too.  Is the queen on your money?  It all seems a bit silly.  

The point I was making though, is that she seems to be a symbol that the folks of England like to rally around.  Rather than a person/position, the US likes flags and songs.

Poca's not a Brit.