(May 10, 2009 at 11:00 pm)g-mark Wrote: Back on track into a infinite argument that will have no winner. Don't you guys get sick of typing?

I NEVER get sick of typing.

Much more fun than talking

I agree gmark there will never be a winner in this argument as long as you have those that refuse to see the bible for what it is.A book created by man and written by man and finally full of contradictions.In my view seriously speaking arguing and using the bible as proof for your arguments is useless and counter productive.As an atheist I cant accept the bible as evidence of anything,but when you tangle with christians that is all they have along with their blind faith in the improbable.

(May 11, 2009 at 12:37 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I agree gmark there will never be a winner in this argument as long as you have those that refuse to see the bible for what it is.

Well I of course;totally agree with that either way.

If they don't see it for how it is (a load of nonsense) then they actually are giving it some sort of credibility so of course they're not gonna be won over as LONG as they do that.

The question is - will they ever cut down vastly in numbers in holding onto not seeing the bible as it really is? Or completely?

I doubt they will completely. Not sure about them cutting down, I think there will always be plenty of believers but it may be able to be reduced (of course it could be reduced but then go right back up again).

But yeah, if they don't see it for what it really is then they will continue to believe...well, because if they DIDN'T continue to believe then they WOULD be seeing it for what it really is.

But yeah. I don't personally believe religion will ever die (without us humans being wiped-out along with it) - but whether it can be reduced I don't know. It might grow, it might go up and down or stay the same, it might be reduced. But I doubt it will ever fully die.

I mean even if the present religions die - new ones could always come up in future. All the religions of the past are, just that - religions of the past, they're gone, dead. But religion itself is still around and thriving - it's just different religions that are new (newer in comparison to the older dead religions I mean, like belief in Zeus, Ra and Thor, etc).

EvF

I dont ever think religion or christianity for that matter will ever die.As long as there are those who are willing to walk in a fantasy world and happily wear blinders to reality there will always be religion.You can lead a horse to water but you cant force it to drink.This may sound harsh but it just illustrates my frustration with dealing with christians in particular,but I am of the opinion that you can slap a christian in the face with every fact and contradiction and they will find a way to weasel out of it.Frodo my good friend you are a perfect example of that but as I like to say to each his own.

I think there's actually a much much MUCH greater chance that RELIGION will survive than specifically christianity. So many religions of the past died out.

Christianity has been going for like 2000 years now - but I mean IF us humans last another few thousand, few tends of thousand, few hundreds of thousand or even a few MILLION years more...I think if Christianity hasn't died by then it will have evolved into something else that isn't really Christianity anymore...too much time will have past...

E.G. If humans lasted for 10 million years...I doubt by then that people will still be on about Jesus...I think it would have evolved into something different by then - if not religion ITSELF being different. Who knows - that's a long time!!

EvF

(May 11, 2009 at 12:55 pm)chatpilot Wrote: I dont ever think religion or christianity for that matter will ever die.As long as there are those who are willing to walk in a fantasy world and happily wear blinders to reality there will always be religion.You can lead a horse to water but you cant force it to drink.This may sound harsh but it just illustrates my frustration with dealing with christians in particular,but I am of the opinion that you can slap a christian in the face with every fact and contradiction and they will find a way to weasel out of it.Frodo my good friend you are a perfect example of that but as I like to say to each his own.

Agreed. Though I'm quiet sure religion will die out eventually. It may take a while but I'm sure it will die out. Think of how many religions of the past have faded away.

Chritianity has been wrong about the world being flat and wiches being the cause for lighting striking churches....oh and the earth being the centre of the univurse. Strangly that even though the religion remains and continues to spread delusion it has been wrong on so many accounts. It's because it changes it's claims to suit undeniable facts for which it has no choice. Science leads the way and religion is a mile behind pretending to know it all. Christians didn't know much about the earth or space until science took a look and explained it nicely.

I find theists arrogant and ignorant. They seem to think "god did it" is a suitable answer to a big question. Many also fail to understand the meaning of the word "evidence" and some like frodo attack the scientific method because they cannot use it to support their claims and that it removes the need for faith. Evidence is essential to any advancement in knowledge and understanding. To go along on belief/faith alone means you can never confirm weather it's true or not. Also for one theist on one particular religious views also tends to fail to understand the atheistic position of reason. One such question being which god and why. To simply reject one over another takes serious reason with evidence to back it up. Frodo for example rejects countless religions/beliefs/gods and I have not seen him give an answer why he chooses christianity over islam or mormon beliefs. Mention the need for evidence and he attacks the word evidence itself.

As longs as there are people out there that can't be bothered to read and study, then there will be plenty of delusional people out there ready to be part of a religion.

You seriously miss the point though guys. The point is that Christianity holds the answers that you try to recreate as your own perfect new model world, only it does it better. What would be the point if it didn't? You wander around in darkness with prejudice.

Again and again you present your new holy grail of science using all the old and well worn cliche's of failed religions of the past. You use self justification of your insular logic.

Religion is bad. Science as a religion is worse. You should let science remain what it is, and not try to superimpose it onto subjects that it is not. This is a huge fallacy.

Science as a religion? Please elaborate. Studying the universe (what science does) is a good thing.

I dunno what you are speaking of? Unless you are talking of some particular scientists like 'mad scientists' who do excessive immoral experimentation or something??

Please elaborate. Science is about studying the universe right? I don't see a problem with it.

What do you mean science as a religion fr0d0? Please elaborate.

EvF

I didn't say that science was a religion. I was suggesting that elevating science to supercede religion, as Richard Dawkins seems to suggest, is worse than religion. (hope that helps)

Well science finds the truth about reality and gets results..religion doesn't...all power to science over religion I say.

I agree with Dawkins there certainly:

"Scientific beliefs are supported by evidence, and they get results. Myths and faiths are not and do not." - Dawkins

EvF