(November 3, 2017 at 11:04 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 3, 2017 at 9:30 pm)Court Jester Wrote: It's all in the end result and question applies to any of the tools in either situation (which no one is willing to answer)

Tell you what, let's handle the issue in order of severity.  So, shoelace control can be on the docket..if you positively insist..because it's totally not silly. 

Let's take a looksie at guns first eh?  We could certainly enforce the laws currently on the books better and more uniformly than we do, just for starters.  After we do that, we'll take a look and see whether or not shoelaces or guns are a bigger problem and prioritize again?

I know it's tough to wrap your mind around this whole "root cause, wider scope thinking" thing but I'll work with you here. Go reread my previous post. I'll wait for you.

Okay? Now... We are not looking at the tool being used. I understand that not every individual has multiple degrees, nearly has a PhD, or a Six Sigma master certification. That's okay. This is a safe learning environment. We're gonna work through this together. Again, we are not looking at the tool being used. That would be a type of symptom of the issue. Not the issue itself. We're getting into a broader thought process beyond the simple narrow minded view here.

I realize that this is where I'm losing you. Take a deep breath. Okay... one more; great job. Now let's get back into some root cause analysis.

So forget what the tool being used is. The type of tool is of no concern through the first steps. Simply understanding that a tool of whatever sort was used to cause a negative result based on psychosocial norms of whatever region on earth. A tool was used to take an individuals life without that individual's consent or the consent of that individual's friends and family.

Take another deep breath now. The really hard part is coming.

Pick the first factor in the first step to the root cause of the incident.

1. The tool is at fault

B. The person that used the tool for a negative result is at fault

III. The person or company that made the tool or allowed the tool to be available is at fault

If you've made it this far and have been able to ramain rational enough to pick an answer after this tough and treacherous first step; you have made it as far as the elementary and middle school children I worked with on broblem solving techniques. I actually have done this same thing with many children. I have faith in you though. You can do this too though.

So now; what is your answer and why?

How about

Z The tool was used exactly as designed by the manufacturer

With using certain weapons you can kill a lot of people in a short amount of time. Sure, you can kill people with a knife or a shoe lace, but you can't kill 60 of them in 10 minutes.

There's a reason why we send our ground troops out with machine guns and not shoe laces.

Trying to act as though access to highly deadly weapons doesn't play a role in the death toll of these attacks is dishonest.

(November 4, 2017 at 1:35 am)Court Jester Wrote: I know it's tough to wrap your mind around this whole "root cause, wider scope thinking" thing but I'll work with you here. Go reread my previous post. I'll wait for you.

The "root cause, wider scope" issue of our gun problem is suicide.  Better mental health screening and strict enforcement of the federal "crazy can't have a gun" law would cut down on the majority of gun related deaths -and- shoelace related deaths.  Might even catch a few nutballs who want to open fire on a crowd with that one too, though certainly not all of them.  I've got suggestions for the other 40% of gun related deaths as well. Strangely enough, we have a whole bunch of laws on the books intended to address the root causes of gun death, but for reasons of complete batshittery...well represented by your posts on the subject, we just don't enforce them.

There's a sliver of the issue that would probably require additional solutions not at all related to gun access, but more tailored to poverty and the arms race between cops and criminals.....but I have very little expectation that our institutions are ready to address that sliver in any meaningful way. It would require acknowledgement of what they..and you, would rather deny, deny, deny....because "shoelaces" and "it's the individual".

Next?

(November 4, 2017 at 1:35 am)Court Jester Wrote:

(November 3, 2017 at 11:04 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Tell you what, let's handle the issue in order of severity.  So, shoelace control can be on the docket..if you positively insist..because it's totally not silly. 

Let's take a looksie at guns first eh?  We could certainly enforce the laws currently on the books better and more uniformly than we do, just for starters.  After we do that, we'll take a look and see whether or not shoelaces or guns are a bigger problem and prioritize again?

I know it's tough to wrap your mind around this whole "root cause, wider scope thinking" thing but I'll work with you here. Go reread my previous post. I'll wait for you.

Okay? Now... We are not looking at the tool being used. I understand that not every individual has multiple degrees, nearly has a PhD, or a Six Sigma master certification. That's okay. This is a safe learning environment. We're gonna work through this together. Again, we are not looking at the tool being used. That would be a type of symptom of the issue. Not the issue itself. We're getting into a broader thought process beyond the simple narrow minded view here.  

I realize that this is where I'm losing you. Take a deep breath.  Okay... one more; great job. Now let's get back into some root cause analysis.

So forget what the tool being used is. The type of tool is of no concern through the first steps. Simply understanding that a tool of whatever sort was used to cause a negative result based on psychosocial norms of whatever region on earth. A tool was used to take an individuals life without that individual's consent or the consent of that individual's friends and family.

Take another deep breath now. The really hard part is coming.

Pick the first factor in the first step to the root cause of the incident.

1. The tool is at fault

B. The person that used the tool for a negative result is at fault

III. The person or company that made the tool or allowed the tool to be available is at fault

If you've made it this far and have been able to ramain rational enough to pick an answer after this tough and treacherous first step; you have made it as far as the elementary and middle school children I worked with on broblem solving techniques. I actually have done this same thing with many children. I have faith in you though. You can do this too though.

So now; what is your answer and why?

I have never heard of a mass killing by a shoelace wielding maniac

An assault rifles purpose is to kill people . The original designers meant it to kill people . If it's used to kill people you can't say it's being misused . I highly doubt the inventors of the horseless carriage were wondering how many people they could slaughter with one.

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(November 4, 2017 at 8:29 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 4, 2017 at 1:35 am)Court Jester Wrote: I know it's tough to wrap your mind around this whole "root cause, wider scope thinking" thing but I'll work with you here. Go reread my previous post. I'll wait for you.

The "root cause, wider scope" issue of our gun problem is suicide.  Better mental health screening and strict enforcement of the federal "crazy can't have a gun" law would cut down on the majority of gun related deaths -and- shoelace related deaths.  Might even catch a few nutballs who want to open fire on a crowd with that one too, though certainly not all of them.  I've got suggestions for the other 40% of gun related deaths as well.  Strangely enough, we have a whole bunch of laws on the books intended to address the root causes of gun death, but for reasons of complete batshittery...well represented by your posts on the subject, we just don't enforce them.  

There's a sliver of the issue that would probably require additional solutions not at all related to gun access, but more tailored to poverty and the arms race between cops and criminals.....but I have very little expectation that our institutions are ready to address that sliver in any meaningful way.  It would require acknowledgement of what they..and you, would rather deny, deny, deny....because "shoelaces" and "it's the individual".

Next?

I always find it funny the people like Clown  Boy insist we rigidly enforce Americans shitty immigration laws . But not gun laws .

Well, you gotta remember; it's not guns that kill people, it's mexicans.

(November 4, 2017 at 8:29 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(November 4, 2017 at 1:35 am)Court Jester Wrote: I know it's tough to wrap your mind around this whole "root cause, wider scope thinking" thing but I'll work with you here. Go reread my previous post. I'll wait for you.

The "root cause, wider scope" issue of our gun problem is suicide.  Better mental health screening and strict enforcement of the federal "crazy can't have a gun" law would cut down on the majority of gun related deaths -and- shoelace related deaths.  Might even catch a few nutballs who want to open fire on a crowd with that one too, though certainly not all of them.  I've got suggestions for the other 40% of gun related deaths as well.  Strangely enough, we have a whole bunch of laws on the books intended to address the root causes of gun death, but for reasons of complete batshittery...well represented by your posts on the subject, we just don't enforce them.  

There's a sliver of the issue that would probably require additional solutions not at all related to gun access, but more tailored to poverty and the arms race between cops and criminals.....but I have very little expectation that our institutions are ready to address that sliver in any meaningful way.  It would require acknowledgement of what they..and you, would rather deny, deny, deny....because "shoelaces" and "it's the individual".

Next?

Not bad for a white guy. You even got pretty darn close.

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(November 4, 2017 at 6:06 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: I always find it funny the people like Clown  Boy insist we rigidly enforce Americans shitty immigration laws . But not gun laws .

I never said that we shouldn't enforce gun laws and I've never said that we needed new immigration laws either.
It's that $30 an hour McDonald's burger flipper mentality that has your cognitive thought process hitting speed bumps. You'll get there in time.

Keep chanting your barely coherent nonsense clown boy 

 

(November 4, 2017 at 8:13 pm)Court Jester Wrote: Not bad for a white guy.

Well, all the girls say I'm pretty fly.

Quote:You even got pretty darn close.

........................

I get that you may not have been around long enough to know that I'm a gun rights advocate on these boards..but I'll forgive you for not knowing that and just assume that you mean well..but somehow managed to swallow the gun nutter koolaid and think you're dealing with one of obamas brownshirts who want to take your beloved sidearm.



Our "gun problem" is 6 parts suicide, and 3.9 repeating cops and robbers...the remainder being "accidents" and mass shootings. Pistols are the problem, not even hot pistols..and a vanishing small number of pistols. Nobody has assault rifles, nobodies looking to take away the assault rifles no one has, or "all the gunz!" and shoelaces are space cadet shit no matter what side of the fence you sit on. The problem, where there is a problem, is access...and in the crushing majority of cases that access is already illegal. We can't bring enforcement down on "individuals" because "individuals" aren't legitimate targets for enforcement..until they;ve committed a crime. That won't reduce death, it will only increase incarceration. Legal access and competency, however, -can- be enforced before a crime is ever committed..without infringing on anyone's rights, and with no changes to the law other than uniform and serious enforcement.

So, are you with me, so that we don't lose our rights as a reactionary response to gun death...and that;s where this is headed..or do you want to bullshit these people some more about shoelaces and individuals?