Driver hits people in Manhattan; multiple deaths

[Court Jester]

Keep chanting your barely coherent nonsense clown boy 

 

Not bad for a white guy.

Well, all the girls say I'm pretty fly.

You even got pretty darn close.

........................

I get that you may not have been around long enough to know that I'm a gun rights advocate on these boards..but I'll forgive you for not knowing that and just assume that you mean well..but somehow managed to swallow the gun nutter koolaid and think you're dealing with one of obamas brownshirts who want to take your beloved sidearm.



Our "gun problem" is 6 parts suicide, and 3.9 repeating cops and robbers...the remainder being "accidents" and mass shootings.  Pistols are the problem, not even hot pistols..and a vanishing small number of pistols.  Nobody has assault rifles, nobodies looking to take away the assault rifles no one has, or "all the gunz!" and shoelaces are space cadet shit no matter what side of the fence you sit on.  The problem, where there is a problem, is access...and in the crushing majority of cases that access is already illegal.  We can't bring enforcement down on "individuals" because "individuals" aren't legitimate targets for enforcement..until they;ve committed a crime.  That won't reduce death, it will only increase incarceration.  Legal access and competency, however, -can- be enforced before a crime is ever committed..without infringing on anyone's rights, and with no changes to the law other than uniform and serious enforcement.  

So, are you with me, so that we don't lose our rights as a reactionary response to gun death...and that;s where this is headed..or do you want to bullshit these people some more about shoelaces and individuals?

Yeah. I mean well.

I can appreciate that you are a gun rights advocate. Though I do believe that the mindset that “no one wants to take away all the gunz” is a flawed view.

Just for you to understand where I’m coming from; I have an MBA and an MS in psychology, and am nearly completed with a PhD in psychology. I also have a Six Simga master black belt certification. With that (and because of that), I am not only a life time NRA member, I am a NRA speaker and have volunteered my time, and been paid for my time on multiple occasions to work with communities to help assist with issues of gun violence.

So with that said; I am a gun nut per say, though not your typical back woods gun nut.

Now any one that says that our gun problem is six parts suicide, whatever parts cops and robbers, and the rest being whatever the heck else hasn’t fully analyzed the issues. It is a narrow minded flat earth assumption that doesn’t come close to solving the problem.

My typical response to that would be:

Assume you’re driving down your driveway and you get a flat tire. You get out of your car and see a huge gash in the tire.

What’s the problem? You don’t have air in your tire.

How do you solve the problem? Put air in the tire is similar to the typical liberal gun response.  

What about the gash? Change the tire may be another typical liberal response.

The problem still isn’t solved. What happens the next time you drive down the driveway and you hit what you hit the last time? Flat tire again right?

Well the obvious next choice would be to remove whatever was in the driveway that cause you to get a flat tire. A smarter liberal problem solving choice but you can still get more chunks in your driveway.

When do you identify where that chunk of whatever came from and how you ensure that it doesn’t make its way into your driveway again? That’s where it can branch off to a why-tree type of problem solving activity that could solve a boat load of other issues.


So, let’s go back to your “Our gun problem is 6 parts suicide”. If we eliminated 60% of the guns in the US; would there still be suicide? When people are dumb enough to focus on the tool (gun, shoe lace, ice pick, pocket knife, etc.) they don’t solve the problem. Focus on the problem and the root cause and I can assure you that the tool used is of no concern. Commit suicide with a gun or tie off the throat with a shoe lace to suffocate? Remove the tool and address the problem. The first step of this problem is the suicide.

Why does someone want to commit suicide?

Do they have the right medical attention or medical coverage? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Do they have a family close to them that is able and/or willing to assist them in their clear time of need? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Do they have the means to cover or receive their needed medications? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Are they being bullied in a school where the teachers and administrators don’t care or have a workload that is too high for them to give the individual the attention needed? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Are they suffering from a mental illness in a community with no resources or extremely limited resources that restricts them from the needed care? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Did they lose their job and now can’t pay any of their bills and are on the verge of being homeless and asshole deep in debt to a point they could never dig out of? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

99.9% of the firearm issues that we have in the United States are brought on by unresolved, unconcerning, or unnoticed sociological and/or socioeconomic issues. But narrow minds are better off removing the tool rather than the problem.




I get a kick and a half out of reading many of the things on this site and I actually things on this site as teaching tools for both of my sons.  

Fuck the business for not paying more money, but forget teaching citizens how to improve their worth in the businesses they work.

Berate the police for shooting a black man with a gun that robbed a store, but forget the poverty he suffered that made him feel like that was his best choice.

Give everyone free healthcare because not everyone can afford it, but forget the idea that medication and medical treatment costs ten times more in the US in many cases compared to other countries.

Take away the guns and make more restrictive gun laws, but forget the issues that drive people to look at a firearm as a viable tool to solve their personal issues.

And I'm the racist, homophobic, Wall Street loving asshole for thinking that way.

Liberal logic actually is active comic relief in my house.

[Brian37]

Keep chanting your barely coherent nonsense clown boy 

 

Well, all the girls say I'm pretty fly.

........................

I get that you may not have been around long enough to know that I'm a gun rights advocate on these boards..but I'll forgive you for not knowing that and just assume that you mean well..but somehow managed to swallow the gun nutter koolaid and think you're dealing with one of obamas brownshirts who want to take your beloved sidearm.



Our "gun problem" is 6 parts suicide, and 3.9 repeating cops and robbers...the remainder being "accidents" and mass shootings.  Pistols are the problem, not even hot pistols..and a vanishing small number of pistols.  Nobody has assault rifles, nobodies looking to take away the assault rifles no one has, or "all the gunz!" and shoelaces are space cadet shit no matter what side of the fence you sit on.  The problem, where there is a problem, is access...and in the crushing majority of cases that access is already illegal.  We can't bring enforcement down on "individuals" because "individuals" aren't legitimate targets for enforcement..until they;ve committed a crime.  That won't reduce death, it will only increase incarceration.  Legal access and competency, however, -can- be enforced before a crime is ever committed..without infringing on anyone's rights, and with no changes to the law other than uniform and serious enforcement.  

So, are you with me, so that we don't lose our rights as a reactionary response to gun death...and that;s where this is headed..or do you want to bullshit these people some more about shoelaces and individuals?

Yeah. I mean well.

I can appreciate that you are a gun rights advocate. Though I do believe that the mindset that “no one wants to take away all the gunz” is a flawed view.

Just for you to understand where I’m coming from; I have an MBA and an MS in psychology, and am nearly completed with a PhD in psychology. I also have a Six Simga master black belt certification. With that (and because of that), I am not only a life time NRA member, I am a NRA speaker and have volunteered my time, and been paid for my time on multiple occasions to work with communities to help assist with issues of gun violence.

So with that said; I am a gun nut per say, though not your typical back woods gun nut.

Now any one that says that our gun problem is six parts suicide, whatever parts cops and robbers, and the rest being whatever the heck else hasn’t fully analyzed the issues. It is a narrow minded flat earth assumption that doesn’t come close to solving the problem.

My typical response to that would be:

Assume you’re driving down your driveway and you get a flat tire. You get out of your car and see a huge gash in the tire.

What’s the problem? You don’t have air in your tire.

How do you solve the problem? Put air in the tire is similar to the typical liberal gun response.  

What about the gash? Change the tire may be another typical liberal response.

The problem still isn’t solved. What happens the next time you drive down the driveway and you hit what you hit the last time? Flat tire again right?

Well the obvious next choice would be to remove whatever was in the driveway that cause you to get a flat tire. A smarter liberal problem solving choice but you can still get more chunks in your driveway.

When do you identify where that chunk of whatever came from and how you ensure that it doesn’t make its way into your driveway again? That’s where it can branch off to a why-tree type of problem solving activity that could solve a boat load of other issues.


So, let’s go back to your “Our gun problem is 6 parts suicide”. If we eliminated 60% of the guns in the US; would there still be suicide? When people are dumb enough to focus on the tool (gun, shoe lace, ice pick, pocket knife, etc.) they don’t solve the problem. Focus on the problem and the root cause and I can assure you that the tool used is of no concern. Commit suicide with a gun or tie off the throat with a shoe lace to suffocate? Remove the tool and address the problem. The first step of this problem is the suicide.

Why does someone want to commit suicide?

Do they have the right medical attention or medical coverage? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Do they have a family close to them that is able and/or willing to assist them in their clear time of need? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Do they have the means to cover or receive their needed medications? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Are they being bullied in a school where the teachers and administrators don’t care or have a workload that is too high for them to give the individual the attention needed? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Are they suffering from a mental illness in a community with no resources or extremely limited resources that restricts them from the needed care? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

Did they lose their job and now can’t pay any of their bills and are on the verge of being homeless and asshole deep in debt to a point they could never dig out of? Why not fix that rather than letting them suffer with the desire to kill themselves?

99.9% of the firearm issues that we have in the United States are brought on by unresolved, unconcerning, or unnoticed sociological and/or socioeconomic issues. But narrow minds are better off removing the tool rather than the problem.




I get a kick and a half out of reading many of the things on this site and I actually things on this site as teaching tools for both of my sons.  

Fuck the business for not paying more money, but forget teaching citizens how to improve their worth in the businesses they work.

Berate the police for shooting a black man with a gun that robbed a store, but forget the poverty he suffered that made him feel like that was his best choice.

Give everyone free healthcare because not everyone can afford it, but forget the idea that medication and medical treatment costs ten times more in the US in many cases compared to other countries.

Take away the guns and make more restrictive gun laws, but forget the issues that drive people to look at a firearm as a viable tool to solve their personal issues.

And I'm the racist, homophobic, Wall Street loving asshole for thinking that way.

Liberal logic actually is active comic relief in my house.

You sure do post a a lot with a career like yours. Most people I've meet in that profession don't have that kind of time. 

Have you ever spent time with the victims families and survivors of say Newtown, Vegas, Charlston, because a shrink shouldn't be selective about the party of the patients they help, they should have the same ethics as a doctor and help anyone who comes into their office. 

Pretty crappy thing for a shrink to do to talk like you do. Or maybe you are stretching the truth about your "degree".

[Court Jester]

You sure do post a a lot with a career like yours. Most people I've meet in that profession don't have that kind of time. 

Have you ever spent time with the victims families and survivors of say Newtown, Vegas, Charlston, because a shrink shouldn't be selective about the party of the patients they help, they should have the same ethics as a doctor and help anyone who comes into their office. 

Pretty crappy thing for a shrink to do to talk like you do. Or maybe you are stretching the truth about your "degree".

Should have come up to ride out the hurricane and seen.

It's Sunday and storming. Nothing to do outside in the rain, didn't feel like going to church, and this site is an okay relief from school work.

I have my own manufacturing company that has absolutely zero to do with psychology. I've never completed a clinical and I never will. I have no desire to work in the field at that level. I just wanted the degree, this subjects actually has text books that are really interesting, and psychology is far more helpful in business than an MBA. At a certain point, you deal more with people than anything else. We employ people that have the skills I learned with the business degree.

I was contacted by a school to help once but I shot that one down. Principal new me and asked. I have spoken with victims and victim's families at different events that I've attended or volunteered for. Not so much from a "practicing" level though and in many of those instances, my opinion wouldn't have helped their situation so it's better to just listen and help.

[Amarok]

A lot a words posted 

Not a lick of sense made

Typical Ass clown

As for political logic

[Court Jester]

A lot a words posted 

Not a lick of sense made

Typical Ass clown

As for political logic

Stay on topic. 
This conversation is about bang sticks.

[Amarok]

Whatever Ass Clown . Your blather is not worth my response . You have been humiliated on this site  so many times . You might as well be Little Rik  atheist edition .

[Edwardo Piet]

IMO the important difference between what happened here and what happened in the church, that recent mass shooting, is motives.

[Ravenshire]

Tell you what, let's handle the issue in order of severity.  So, shoelace control can be on the docket..if you positively insist..because it's totally not silly. 

Let's take a looksie at guns first eh?  We could certainly enforce the laws currently on the books better and more uniformly than we do, just for starters.  After we do that, we'll take a look and see whether or not shoelaces or guns are a bigger problem and prioritize again?

I know it's tough to wrap your mind around this whole "root cause, wider scope thinking" thing but I'll work with you here. Go reread my previous post. I'll wait for you.

Okay? Now... We are not looking at the tool being used. I understand that not every individual has multiple degrees, nearly has a PhD, or a Six Sigma master certification. That's okay. This is a safe learning environment. We're gonna work through this together. Again, we are not looking at the tool being used. That would be a type of symptom of the issue. Not the issue itself. We're getting into a broader thought process beyond the simple narrow minded view here.  

I realize that this is where I'm losing you. Take a deep breath.  Okay... one more; great job. Now let's get back into some root cause analysis.

So forget what the tool being used is. The type of tool is of no concern through the first steps. Simply understanding that a tool of whatever sort was used to cause a negative result based on psychosocial norms of whatever region on earth. A tool was used to take an individuals life without that individual's consent or the consent of that individual's friends and family.

Take another deep breath now. The really hard part is coming.

Pick the first factor in the first step to the root cause of the incident.

1. The tool is at fault

B. The person that used the tool for a negative result is at fault

III. The person or company that made the tool or allowed the tool to be available is at fault

If you've made it this far and have been able to ramain rational enough to pick an answer after this tough and treacherous first step; you have made it as far as the elementary and middle school children I worked with on broblem solving techniques. I actually have done this same thing with many children. I have faith in you though. You can do this too though.

So now; what is your answer and why?

Tell ya what. The next time there's a mass shoelacing resulting in 20+ deaths, or maybe the next drive-by shoelacing, we'll take another look at the dangers of shoelaces. Until then, maybe we should look at the dangers of largely unrestricted and unregulated gun ownership and the danger it currently poses.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah. I mean well.

I can appreciate that you are a gun rights advocate. Though I do believe that the mindset that “no one wants to take away all the gunz” is a flawed view.

Just for you to understand where I’m coming from; I have an MBA and an MS in psychology, and am nearly completed with a PhD in psychology. I also have a Six Simga master black belt certification. With that (and because of that), I am not only a life time NRA member, I am a NRA speaker and have volunteered my time, and been paid for my time on multiple occasions to work with communities to help assist with issues of gun violence.

So with that said; I am a gun nut per say, though not your typical back woods gun nut.

Hold my drink while I laugh at how you think your six sigma cert means a damned thing.  How often do you casually drop that into conversation?  As a well educated student of the human mind, what would you say motivates you to tell us this in a discussion about mass shootings and gun control?  

Now any one that says that our gun problem is six parts suicide, whatever parts cops and robbers, and the rest being whatever the heck else hasn’t fully analyzed the issues. It is a narrow minded flat earth assumption that doesn’t come close to solving the problem.

That's just the statistical distribution of gun death.  In ten gun deaths, six are suicide and 4 are either cops shooting someone or criminals shooting someone (usually a cop or another criminal - but spouses and significant others are high on the list too..not that these categories don't have significant overlap.......).  The odd mass shootings are flashy but they don;t amount to much in the pie.  The same is true of "accidents".  OFC knowing that doesn't solve the problem, but it does tell us what the problem is, what needs solving.  

So, let’s go back to your “Our gun problem is 6 parts suicide”. If we eliminated 60% of the guns in the US; would there still be suicide? When people are dumb enough to focus on the tool (gun, shoe lace, ice pick, pocket knife, etc.) they don’t solve the problem. Focus on the problem and the root cause and I can assure you that the tool used is of no concern. Commit suicide with a gun or tie off the throat with a shoe lace to suffocate? Remove the tool and address the problem. The first step of this problem is the suicide.

Who said anything about removing the tool?  I said that we need to have better mental health screening, and stricter enforcement of the federal law stating that crazy can't have a gun.  This would prevent the majority of -gun deaths-.  Whether or not it "solves suicide" is irrelevant.  We could certainly work on that as well, but "solving suicide" is not the aim of gun control.

99.9% of the firearm issues that we have in the United States are brought on by unresolved, unconcerning, or unnoticed sociological and/or socioeconomic issues. But narrow minds are better off removing the tool rather than the problem.

I don't know why you keep talking about removing the tool.  In any case..sure, deep rooted socioeconomic problems lead to a situation in which people end up dead by gun.  What do you think we have a better shot at, enforcing our current gun regulations..or solving mental illness, poverty, and crime?  Do you -really- think that we'd have to solve mental illness, poverty, and crime to reduce the number of gun deaths in our country..or that this would be the simplest and most direct way to do so?  It doesn't seem like any other country had to do so to achieve the same effect.   I'm well aware that removing guns would only prevent -some- suicides, and also that we don;t have to remove guns to prevent suicide...however, limiting access to guns on reasonable grounds already laid out by federal law will reduce gun death -and- suicide -and- mass shootings. Pretty efficient, since the laws are already on the books. "Removing the tool".....or just limiting access, again on reasonable grounds laid out by federal and state law won't end crime either, but it will reduce crimes involving -guns-. I don;t know if you're aware of this, but crimes involving guns are statistically more lethal than crimes -not- involving guns.

You aren't telling me anything I didn't already comment on from the outset.  In some cases we will have to make changes to other systems or provide a credible way -to- enforce our laws  Can't enforce the crazy can't have a gun law without mental health screening, now can we?  Criminals aren't going to stop packing so long as their main opposition...cops and other criminals..are packing...and we're not going to be able to reduce the number of guns in circulation until we can credibly enforce existing regulations concerning their sale, transfer, and storage.

Gun nuts generally limit themselves to pleading with the darkness not to take their guns..but objecting to the suggestion that we enforce our gun laws..because of socioeconomic problems that no one in gun nut land is looking to solve......is a particularly batshit kind of low even for gun nuttery. Personally, I;m of the opinion that a legitimate attempt to enforce what laws we have would change the distribution and nature of our gun problem fundamentally. Theres no other area of law where so much ink is spilled on so many regulations that no one intends to enforce, or even provide the basic framework necessary -for- enforcing. It's positively mystifying until I remind myself of -why- those laws have been left to die on the vine.........

Fucking gun nuts who don't have the sense or foresight to realize that they, more than any mass shooter, are the ones driving us to a gun ban. Call me crazy, but you'd think they;d be onboard 100%..but no, you want to talk about shoelaces and flat tires and liberals and schoolyard bullies and how it's the poors just being poor and possessing a gun while black and your racist anxiety....and your silly ass six sigma cert.

[Court Jester]

HAHAHA. Triggered ya.
Well; That's why you are where you are and I'm where I am.
Good luck with that level of thinking big guy.