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One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.

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One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
ErGingerbreadMandude Offline
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#111
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 1:55 pm
Khemikal Wrote:Some moral questions in an objective framework -have- no "correct" answer. No answer can be given objectively.

The point is if we take a moral question "Is it okay to rape children" there is only one correct answer and that is "no". Don't lie I know you believe it is objectively wrong as well.
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Catholic_Lady Offline
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#112
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:01 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 1:55 pm)bennyboy Wrote:
(November 7, 2017 at 9:37 am)pool the matey Wrote: All you have to know is there is a positive thing at the end of every suffering MK. God has a plan for every one of us, whatever hell anyone is going through as long as they endure it there will be a reward for them in the end and that's the absolute truth.

Totally.  That's why it's fine to let starving babies starve, to step over the homeless guy on the street to buy your $10 Starbucks latte, or to tear holes in the ozone and pretend it never happened because it can increase corporate revenues by 25%.

. . . or not to take your meds.

Strawman. The beatitudes of Christianity specifically call us to feed the hungry, care for the sick, etc. 

As for not taking your meds, you are referring to a fringe group of Christians, none of which are even on this forum, and that's not really fair. There are entire Christian hospitals out there.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#113
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:02 pm (This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 2:07 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I do think it's objectively wrong, Pool.

...................................................?

I think that there's something about the act of rape, itself, that makes it immoral. I struggle to see how you could agree, though..as a believer in a rape commanding "perfectly moral" god...as a proponent of the idea that the end of heaven justifies the means of suffering. Care to work that out for us?
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Whateverist Away Donators
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#114
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:15 pm (This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 2:17 pm by Whateverist.)
(November 7, 2017 at 11:51 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(November 7, 2017 at 11:31 am)pool the matey Wrote: The hell... That's just bizarre. That's not right, that's not okay, I don't know but turning a blind eye to evil is just as bad as siding with it.. Like seriously, this is common sense I can only imagine they don't actually believe it in their hearts either at least I hope..

I don't think it's accurate to say they "turn a blind eye." 

They still think it's absolutely heinous, and they still think it's much more horrible than when animals do it (despite using animal examples to somehow prove that it's no different), and they still think it should be strictly against the law everywhere, and they still think the person responsible is a piece of shit who should receive justified punishment like life behind bars.  

So the way I see it, saying "evil doesn't exist" and "nothing is objectively wrong" and "it's only a matter of personal opinion" is words only. By all intents and purposes, they do see child rape, torture, and murder as an evil act and it takes an evil person to do it. It doesn't make any sense in my mind, because when I think about things that are merely a matter of personal opinion or taste and there is no right/wrong answer, I don't get so fired up about a different opinion. And I certainly don't think people should be punished or seen as bad for a different personal opinion when there is no correct right/wrong answer. 

But it is what it is. The important thing is that everyone participating in this thread is a good person who would always denounce such actions.


I don't see why you keep equating "subjective" with "personal opinion".  Subjects are beings possessed of personhood who experience a wide range of things: sensations, emotions, feelings, ideas, intuitions, faith, conviction, remorse, etc.  Everyone of those experiences accrue to the individual by virtue of their being a subject - not on the basis of their material state as an object.  You can't say all those things are "just their personal opinion, something arbitrary and easily changed".  That just isn't accurate. I doubt if you consider your faith just your personal opinion, I know I don't hold my moral convictions that way.
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Astreja Offline
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#115
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:17 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 9:37 am)pool the matey Wrote: All you have to know is there is a positive thing at the end of every suffering MK. God has a plan for every one of us, whatever hell anyone is going through as long as they endure it there will be a reward for them in the end and that's the absolute truth.

If "death and insentience as relief from intolerable pain" counts as a positive, I could agree with the first sentence.  An absence of suffering is better than suffering.

I don't believe that there are any gods making plans, but I'm not interested in getting a "reward" for following someone else's plan for my life.  (You also have an amusing concept of "absolute truth," too.  How do you propose to demonstrate that it *is* the truth?)
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LastPoet Offline
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#116
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:20 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 10:34 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Are you really comparing child rape to animal behavior?

That's dense as Dijon mustard. Mathilda is saying morality is subjective to the human species. Tu us, child rape is abhorrent, to other species it may not or not possible. Therefore, it is subjective. We have reasons to deem it very wrong, by a bulk of studies showing the damage to the childs development.

Alas, the sword cuts both ways, why does your god in its infinite wisdom, power and goodness, allows child rape to happen? If it is as objective as you say.

Miracles, happen just about popular hysteria. One of them to save a child of a life of torment? Your god was busy making the sun spin around.
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Catholic_Lady Offline
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#117
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:22 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Whateverist Wrote:
(November 7, 2017 at 11:51 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think it's accurate to say they "turn a blind eye." 

They still think it's absolutely heinous, and they still think it's much more horrible than when animals do it (despite using animal examples to somehow prove that it's no different), and they still think it should be strictly against the law everywhere, and they still think the person responsible is a piece of shit who should receive justified punishment like life behind bars.  

So the way I see it, saying "evil doesn't exist" and "nothing is objectively wrong" and "it's only a matter of personal opinion" is words only. By all intents and purposes, they do see child rape, torture, and murder as an evil act and it takes an evil person to do it. It doesn't make any sense in my mind, because when I think about things that are merely a matter of personal opinion or taste and there is no right/wrong answer, I don't get so fired up about a different opinion. And I certainly don't think people should be punished or seen as bad for a different personal opinion when there is no correct right/wrong answer. 

But it is what it is. The important thing is that everyone participating in this thread is a good person who would always denounce such actions.


I don't see why you keep equating "subjective" with "personal opinion".  Subjects are beings possessed of personhood who experience a wide range of things: sensations, emotions, feelings, ideas, intuitions, faith, conviction, remorse, etc.  Everyone of those experiences accrue to the individual by virtue of their being a subject - not on the basis of their material state as an object.  You can't say all those things are "just their personal opinion, something arbitrary and easily changed".  That just isn't accurate. I doubt if you consider your faith just your personal opinion, I know I don't hold my moral convictions that way.

I meant the morality of it, whether its right or wrong, being personal opinion.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#118
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:23 pm (This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 2:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 7, 2017 at 2:20 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Miracles, happen just about popular hysteria. One of them to save a child of a life of torment? Your god was busy making the sun spin around.

Yup, too busy finding lost wallets and confirming the faith of catholics by appearing on buildings and buttholes to stop a crime in progress.  That's left up to us.

-and we're supposed to be the degenerates in this little relationship?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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LastPoet Offline
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#119
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:26 pm
(November 7, 2017 at 2:23 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
(November 7, 2017 at 2:20 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Miracles, happen just about popular hysteria. One of them to save a child of a life of torment? Your god was busy making the sun spin around.

Yup, too busy finding lost wallets and confirming the faith of catholics by appearing on buildings and buttholes to stop a crime in progress.  That's left up to us.

-and we're supposed to be the degenerates  in this little relationship?

God works in mysterious ways?
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WinterHold Away
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#120
RE: One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.
November 7, 2017 at 2:26 pm (This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 2:33 pm by WinterHold.)
Catholic Lady, I don't like to say it in anybody's face; but according to Islam you are in HELL for worshiping Jesus; the only slack is that I'm not God and God does what he wants

Quote:Sura 5, The Quran:
( 17 )   They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

And
Quote:Sura 3, The Quran:
( 84 )   Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
( 85 )   And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

He didn't tell you about these two verses?
I find it quite ironic for a Muslim to form a missionary alliance when a command was already given in the Quran not to do it:

Quote:Sura 5, The Quran:
( 51 )   O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
( 52 )   So you see those in whose hearts is disease hastening into [association with] them, saying, "We are afraid a misfortune may strike us." But perhaps Allah will bring conquest or a decision from Him, and they will become, over what they have been concealing within themselves, regretful.
( 53 )   And those who believe will say, "Are these the ones who swore by Allah their strongest oaths that indeed they were with you?" Their deeds have become worthless, and they have become losers.


So I'm not being mean to a troll, whom I know knows about all of this, but keep it a secret to get more supporters for his missionary effort.
Personally; I hate and despise being lied on. Or used like a puppet. This is the book. Take it or leave it.

Yep and this:

Sura 3, The Quran:
Quote:( 85 )   And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.
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One sentence that throws the problem of evil out of the window.

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