Some things the GGWAG theory doesn't cover:

The Good Guy has to figure out who is the Bad Guy.

The other Good Guys with guns have to figure out who isn't the bad guy. (And hopefully not shoot the other armed people who are "just trying to help out.")

The unarmed people have to figure out who is a GGWAG and not try to stop them by a blow to the back of the head with a chair.

The Good Guy has to decide that a person is in fact guilty of a crime and deserves to get the death penalty for that crime. GG has to do this without examining evidence or talking to witnesses. He needs to become judge, jury and executioner, and violate the shooters Constitutional right to due process under the law.

Other than that, no problem.

(November 13, 2017 at 6:52 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Not mention the good guy with gun mantra defies human nature . No average Joe wants to be the hero . So most people present with a gun will never fire it.

Yep, Dallas a few years back with all the cops murdered. Open carry morons showed up to a prior pro gun rally with assault riffles but didn't use them when the shit hit the fan. Reason given, they didn't want cops confusing them with being the bad guy. It slowed the cops down too.

Actually I agree, the ones one can call "hero" are not the ones seeking conflict, but seeking to avoid it at all costs. If I were running a platoon on a battlefield, I wouldn't want a soldier who loves "getting even". I would want a soldier who looks only to neutralize what they have to and save all others including civilians and downed unarmed enemies. 

Point being, I wouldn't want a Frank Burns or Colonel Flag as a cop or military. I am not claiming I could handle stressful events with a firearm, but saying if you have to put someone in that position, you don't want a utopia gung ho moron full of raging testosterone wanting to be a mere gang member.

You look at America's allies in first world nations and their law enforcement does not have the amount of firearms we do. Why is that? Because their law enforcement does not face a gun obsessed society at the level we do.

(November 13, 2017 at 6:56 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(November 13, 2017 at 6:52 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Not mention the good guy with gun mantra defies human nature . No average Joe wants to be the hero . So most people present with a gun will never fire it.

I had the great joy of teaching guys where were high school seniors a few month earlier how to kill people. Most of them washed out. I got used to a phenomenon called "Self wash-out." The guys who couldn't face shooting the shit out of large numbers of people would just screw up until they were assigned a different job. 

I was happy to have one killer in twenty.

About fits my counselling of PTSD victims

(November 13, 2017 at 7:09 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(November 13, 2017 at 6:56 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I had the great joy of teaching guys where were high school seniors a few month earlier how to kill people. Most of them washed out. I got used to a phenomenon called "Self wash-out." The guys who couldn't face shooting the shit out of large numbers of people would just screw up until they were assigned a different job. 

I was happy to have one killer in twenty.

About fits my  counselling of PTSD victims

Hadn't heard the term back them, just "combat fatigue" and "lack of moral fiber." I thought it was more "being sensible", but I didn't share that much.

(November 13, 2017 at 7:09 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(November 13, 2017 at 6:56 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I had the great joy of teaching guys where were high school seniors a few month earlier how to kill people. Most of them washed out. I got used to a phenomenon called "Self wash-out." The guys who couldn't face shooting the shit out of large numbers of people would just screw up until they were assigned a different job. 

I was happy to have one killer in twenty.

About fits my  counselling of PTSD victims

Speaking of PTSD. 

I think far too many think of that as strictly a battlefield thing. No, even with the trauma of being physically and or verbally abused as a kid, can cause a kid to grow up with severe mental issues, including but not limited to depression, eating disorders and trust issues, and can themselves go on to become abusive as adults.

But even the trauma of witnessing firearm accidents, or a suicide can cause family members and friends long term emotional trauma.

I witnessed this change in a co worker quite a few years ago. She was a buser at the breakfast joint I worked at. When I met her she was thin and fit. She got fired for not showing up one weekend. Turned out that weekend she witnessed her cousin blow his brains out in a driveway with a handgun. I only found out a year later when she showed up to eat there. I didn't recognize her at first. She had developed an eating disorder and gained weight. I am quite sure her witnessing her family member kill himself had a profound affect on her mental state.

Now, I have witnessed death myself, my mom. And that sucks too. But I'd say that watching someone's head explode like a watermelon suddenly is far more traumatizing than knowing a natural death is coming like my mom's was.

I don't think those on the far right understand there is a huge cost to tax payers protecting our flooded market as far as health insurance costs, emergency room costs, and the mental health care costs to those family members whom survive a family member dying by firearm.

(November 13, 2017 at 7:15 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(November 13, 2017 at 7:09 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: About fits my  counselling of PTSD victims

Hadn't heard the term back them, just "combat fatigue" and "lack of moral fiber." I thought it was more "being sensible", but I didn't share that much.

Oh i'm well aware of the lack of knowledge of the time . I remember being on board after board trying to get the Canadian military to acknowledge the problem . Thank goodness they eventually did .

The term "traumatic stress" isn't limited to combat situations, as pointed out. When I handled claims for an insurance company I saw that Dx come over my desk once in a while.

(November 13, 2017 at 7:27 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 13, 2017 at 7:09 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: About fits my  counselling of PTSD victims

Speaking of PTSD. 

I think far too many think of that as strictly a battlefield thing. No, even with the trauma of being physically and or verbally abused as a kid, can cause a kid to grow up with severe mental issues, including but not limited to depression, eating disorders and trust issues, and can themselves go on to become abusive as adults.

But even the trauma of witnessing firearm accidents, or a suicide can cause family members and friends long term emotional trauma.

I witnessed this change in a co worker quite a few years ago. She was a buser at the breakfast joint I worked at. When I met her she was thin and fit. She got fired for not showing up one weekend. Turned out that weekend she witnessed her cousin blow his brains out in a driveway with a handgun. I only found out a year later when she showed up to eat there. I didn't recognize her at first. She had developed an eating disorder and gained weight. I am quite sure her witnessing her family member kill himself had a profound affect on her mental state.

Now, I have witnessed death myself, my mom. And that sucks too. But I'd say that watching someone's head explode like a watermelon suddenly is far more traumatizing than knowing a natural death is coming like my mom's was.

I don't think those on the far right understand there is a huge cost to tax payers protecting our flooded market as far as health insurance costs, emergency room costs, and the mental health care costs to those family members whom survive a family member dying by firearm.

Oh it's frighteningly common i have talked to School teachers , Prison Guards , Paramedics , Even my own colleagues  on the subject . It's unfortunate that after we got the military to acknowledge it .I'm now having to do the same to hospital ' Prisons, and even my own bosses .

(November 13, 2017 at 5:41 pm)Cyberman Wrote:

(November 13, 2017 at 5:02 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Why are you only focused on  firearm homicides?   Shouldn't it be about all homicides, and even then there are other things to consider such as increase in police force.

Because, quite apart from firearm deaths being the topic of discussion, guns are one of the few items that cause grievous injury and loss of life when used exactly as the manufacturer intended. We've been over this.

Not to mention that it is relevant to the topic of this thread. amirite?

(November 13, 2017 at 7:38 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: The term "traumatic stress" isn't limited to combat situations, as pointed out. When I handled claims for an insurance company I saw that Dx come over my desk once in a while.

^^^ This ^^^

Combat just happens to be an extra-efficient way to produce PTSD patients.