(November 15, 2017 at 8:43 am)alpha male Wrote:

(November 14, 2017 at 12:01 pm)Mathilda Wrote: I am not saying that religious indoctrination explicitly states that the consequences of your actions are irrelevant, but it achieves this by trivialising the importance of your real-world life with the idea of an eternity of happiness and agony. And it is taught that this judgment is only carried out by your god.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Bible teaches that we get - or miss out on - eternal rewards based on our actions in this life.

That is not a choice when it is under threat. Hell is a threat, which is not a choice of mutual consent. 

A boyfriend/husband cant threaten to beat the shit out of or murder their partner if they chose to leave.

I don't think the idea of Santa would sell well if it it stopped at coal in your stocking.

Santa, "If you are good, you get presents forever."

Santa, "If you don't do what I say, I will beat the shit out of you, murder you and torture your soul forever.'


I cannot stop you from buying claims of either heaven or hell, but hell is  THREAT not a choice. It is a demand "or else". 

Now again, that kind of threat stems from ANTIQUITY, where human mortality was higher and towing the local ruling family line was the expectation of the day. THUS religions back then reflected the expectation of loyalty. The only places today that incorporate that blind loyalty concept today are theocracies and dictatorships.

No sane person today would find it moral, if they hated their job and wanted to quit, would find it moral if their boss said to them, "Stay and I will reward you, but try to leave and I will beat the shit out of you."

Look, I am being blunt about yes. But I am trying to point out to you that religion back then, even in prior polytheism, was tribal and back then, the local rulers were very harsh on dissent. 

If you are not threatened by a Muslim threatening you with Allah or a Muslim hell, then why should I give your claim's any more special consideration? 

Even the ancient Chinese religions of antiquity had their own form of worship of blind loyalty and authority. The Taracotta(sp) Warriors were very driven to brutally squash dissent, even within their own ranks. I our modern west, our rulers rule by OUR CONSENT.

http://161.28.20.133/cdm/singleitem/coll.../647/rec/1


Rulers of antiquity mistook their success as coming from a divine place, and it wasn't always a single monotheistic deity, it was in polytheism, and more earthy religions were worship of ancestors. But it still amounts to loyalty to the ruler and local tribe.

It is also a myth that Rome and Greece were the models of today's western governments. No, even those were ruled by ruling families ultimately.

(November 15, 2017 at 9:26 am)Brian37 Wrote: That is not a choice when it is under threat. Hell is a threat, which is not a choice of mutual consent. 

I'm talking about the saved, for whom hell is no longer a threat.

A travesty of justice if ever there were one.  Good thing our courts don't work that way.  The world would be filled with free roaming deviants...........no wonder prisons are chock full of christians.

(November 15, 2017 at 8:43 am)alpha male Wrote:

(November 14, 2017 at 12:01 pm)Mathilda Wrote: I am not saying that religious indoctrination explicitly states that the consequences of your actions are irrelevant, but it achieves this by trivialising the importance of your real-world life with the idea of an eternity of happiness and agony. And it is taught that this judgment is only carried out by your god.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Bible teaches that we get - or miss out on - eternal rewards based on our actions in this life.

I've always heard one could take a Mulligan on their death bed.  Did that rule change?

(November 15, 2017 at 11:53 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(November 15, 2017 at 8:43 am)alpha male Wrote: You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Bible teaches that we get - or miss out on - eternal rewards based on our actions in this life.

I've always heard one could take a Mulligan on their death bed.  Did that rule change?

You have to apply for the Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free card.

I'll just get C_L to vouch for me. (She'd better, cuz I got some poop on her.)

(November 15, 2017 at 11:53 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(November 15, 2017 at 8:43 am)alpha male Wrote: You seem to be ignoring the fact that the Bible teaches that we get - or miss out on - eternal rewards based on our actions in this life.

I've always heard one could take a Mulligan on their death bed.  Did that rule change?

You don't understand the rules.

Salvation - yes, can be taken on the death bed. 

Rewards - nope, too late on the death bed. Person can still be saved as "one escaping through the flames," as Paul puts it. See 1 Cor 3.

Point is that, even if one believes in OSAS, there are still eternal rewards to motivate good behavior in this life.

(November 15, 2017 at 12:17 pm)alpha male Wrote: Rewards - nope, too late on the death bed. Person can still be saved as "one escaping through the flames," as Paul puts it. See 1 Cor 3.

Not so sure about that. I heard there aren't any tar-paper shacks in Heaven.

Ahh thats alright, massa Alpha, I jus need a few scraps from the table now and again. I sho do appreciate gettin out a that lake a fire. I won't be no trouble. Y'all jus go back in there an enjoy the party now.

You should do good out of gratitude to the Creator, nothing else is really that much "good".