(November 28, 2017 at 9:43 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 7:53 pm)Joods Wrote: Bold mine.
I don't agree with that. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I am terrified of death. I still don't believe in a god though and I have yet to see evidence of any sort of afterlife.

Same here.  I’m not afraid of stupid shit like hell.  I’m convinced that it, or any other kind of afterlife, does not exist.  What scares me is non-existence.  Of everything that I am simply ceasing to be.  Of no longer having any kind of awareness.

And, I think that similar thoughts are what convinced early peoples to concoct things like an afterlife or reincarnation.  Because it’s utterly terrifying if you actually think about it.

Give it a few decades, and I'll bet that changes. I didn't exist until just over 65 years less than the universe existed. That's a long stretch of time. I won't exist forever after that, but I'll know as much about that as I did the first stretch of billions of years. I can't do a thing about that, and I don't want to. YMMV

(November 28, 2017 at 9:43 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Same here.  I’m not afraid of stupid shit like hell.  I’m convinced that it, or any other kind of afterlife, does not exist.  What scares me is non-existence.  Of everything that I am simply ceasing to be.  Of no longer having any kind of awareness.

I don't understand. How can you fear something that is identical to what it was like before your birth?

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(November 28, 2017 at 9:43 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: And, I think that similar thoughts are what convinced early peoples to concoct things like an afterlife or reincarnation.  Because it’s utterly terrifying if you actually think about it.

No it's not! It's the LEAST scary thing when you think about it. For starters it's not even a thing! I couldn't think of anything less terrifying than nonexistence! Even happy times are scarier because something might go wrong! After you die there's literally nothing to be afraid of anymore. It's life that's scary. After death there can be nothing scarier for me than before death. I've NEVER feared death. Not even when I was a child. The suffering from dying is bad, but after I'm dead? I don't care about my absence when I won't even be capable of missing it. I don't get it. If I didn't wake up tomorrow I literally wouldn't and couldn't give a shit. And if I was told by a doctor that I wouldn't wake up tomorrow, I'd be sad that I wouldn't get to experience joy anymore but I wouldn't have anything to be afraid of anymore either. It's only utterly terrifying if you don't actually think about it and you think about something else instead. Nonexistence can't be scary.

(November 28, 2017 at 9:20 pm)Succubus Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 9:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hey Lek, glad to have you back. Hope you've been doing well.

I too hope he's fine. Now, do you wish to contribute to the discussion.

No.

(November 29, 2017 at 12:14 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 9:20 pm)Succubus Wrote: I too hope he's fine. Now, do you wish to contribute to the discussion.

No.

Poop.

(November 29, 2017 at 12:15 am)Hammy Wrote:

(November 29, 2017 at 12:14 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No.

Poop.

Queef

(November 29, 2017 at 12:19 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 29, 2017 at 12:15 am)Hammy Wrote: Poop.

Queef

Yes please

Quote:This is argument is terribly worded and executed. What you mean is, belief in magical deities have been around since time immemorial but belief in the Jewish God has only been around since 1500 BCE while the Judeo Christian God started in the 1st Century CE.

Knock 1,000 years off of that.  More like 500 BC.  WE have 7th and 8th century BC inscriptions indicating that Yahweh had a wife.... just like Zeus, did.

As for this jesus character, there is no evidence beyond the later prattling of xtian propagandists which set his story in the first century.  No one alive and writing at the time knew fuckall about him.

(November 28, 2017 at 11:58 pm)Hammy Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 9:43 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Same here.  I’m not afraid of stupid shit like hell.  I’m convinced that it, or any other kind of afterlife, does not exist.  What scares me is non-existence.  Of everything that I am simply ceasing to be.  Of no longer having any kind of awareness.

I don't understand. How can you fear something that is identical to what it was like before your birth?

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(November 28, 2017 at 9:43 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: And, I think that similar thoughts are what convinced early peoples to concoct things like an afterlife or reincarnation.  Because it’s utterly terrifying if you actually think about it.

No it's not! It's the LEAST scary thing when you think about it. For starters it's not even a thing! I couldn't think of anything less terrifying than nonexistence! Even happy times are scarier because something might go wrong! After you die there's literally nothing to be afraid of anymore. It's life that's scary. After death there can be nothing scarier for me than before death. I've NEVER feared death. Not even when I was a child. The suffering from dying is bad, but after I'm dead?  I don't care about my absence when I won't even be capable of missing it. I don't get it. If I didn't wake up tomorrow I literally wouldn't and couldn't give a shit. And if I was told by a doctor that I wouldn't wake up tomorrow, I'd be sad that I wouldn't get to experience joy anymore but I wouldn't have anything to be afraid of anymore either. It's only utterly terrifying if you don't actually think about it and you think about something else instead. Nonexistence can't be scary.

I don't find life scary. Individual events? Sure. Mostly those that potentially involve physical pain (having 45 surgeries, and all of the various follow ups and rehab, starting from when you're only a few months old, conditions one to shy away from anything that could land them back in the hospital). But, overall life ranges between boring to fun for me.

And the difference between the universe prior to my existence and now is that I do exist now. And, outside of bouts of depression stemming from my guilt of the burden I impose on others due to my medical needs and care, I like existing. And, most important, I'm aware I exist. Having that awareness, being a unique individual, are important things for me. And while death is inevitable, that doesn't mean I have to be content with the idea. I don't think I'd want to be eternal, but a human lifespan is woefully inadequate for all the things I want to do, experience, and learn.

Finally, I came this close to ripping you a new one. Your habit of replying to others with "You only think/believe that because you're stupid (implied or explicitly stated)! You wouldn't feel that way or believe that thing if you actually thought about it!" is wearing incredibly thin. You're a smart guy, but that doesn't give you license to jump on someone merely for expressing their feelings.

I'm pretty sure that's not how you intended things (which is why I held back), but it's something I think you should be aware of.

(November 28, 2017 at 7:42 pm)Lek Wrote:

(November 28, 2017 at 7:36 pm)pocaracas Wrote: One can have doubt about many "existences afterwards"...
- Are you destined to Valhalla?
- Or will you be a giraffe, next time around?
- Or will you end up in a new person with no memories of your past life?
- Or will you end up in Elysium?
- Or Muslim heaven, with your 72 virgins?
- Or do you need to cross the river Styx and pay the boatman with a coin that should be placed in your mouth prior to burial?
- Or are you bound to the clouds, with wings on your back?

Are you sure it's not any of these?!
100% sure?
Are you prepared for the possibility that you got the wrong one?

No.  As long as I stay right with God those don't worry me.  It doesn't change my opinion that unless you're totally sure that there is no God, you will be concerned about death.

So you think 100% that you have the right god?

Don't you think that's mighty presumptuous, given that (very likely) you only believe in that god in particular because it's the one most people believe in, where you live?
Geography of birth is not a very trustworthy measure of accuracy of a belief system.

Still, people go for it, and feel like it's the right one. Good luck with that!
As for me, I follow Marcus:
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” —Marcus Aurelius

It's weird to me that so many atheists go through something like this. I found it to be liberating. Once you accept that you have no control over the fact you were born, nor over the fact you are going to die, not even when you are going to die. Once you accept all that, you really have no choice but to embrace life and make the best of it.