(December 13, 2017 at 2:50 pm)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: Regarding the op and the various comments that it has generated, perhaps it would have been more effective to leave the labels on the sidelines and to  make the observation that people differ in terms of intellectual ability and to inquire about why this is so. 

P.S. To my knowledge, there has been no uniform consensus among psychologists, psychometricians, etc., about what intelligence actually is.  Do the various concepts of intelligence, which have been defined by humanity, actually have universal validity and merit?

Well said.

(December 12, 2017 at 4:24 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: What I getting at is that the OP refutes itself with it's stupid premise.

Thats now how you refute a study comparing populations.

Well , if we go with statistics .
Italy is 87% religious with an average IQ score of 102 beeing the 8 country with the highest average IQ.
Singapore average IQ 103 , religion percentage 81.5%. 5th
Taiwan average IQ 104 , religion percentage 78.9%. 4th

The fact is that this is more like a CRT question , one must feel the need the overwhrite system 1.

Neo-Scholastic Wrote:What I getting at is that the OP refutes itself with it's stupid premise.

The OP is talking about averages and you're taking about exceptions. Not only does the OP not refute itself, your response is not a refutation.

There's an interesting and not very large difference on average between the scores theists get on IQ tests and the scores atheists get, particularly in the sections concerning analytical ability, and in that one area the difference is significant, in the statistical sense of 'significant difference'. This doesn't preclude theistic geniuses or atheistic morons; and the difference isn't a premise but a finding. It doesn't mean atheists are right or will be more successful in life in general, though they may on average have some edge in fields where analytical aptitude is an asset.

A lot of hay can be made of the significance of the finding, whether it will be born out in follow-up studies, what causes it, whether it matters what country the study is done in, and what it means; but it in no way implies that theists can't produce great scientific geniuses.

Let me ask this because these kinds of threads pop-up often enough. Why is it so important for atheists to prove they are more intelligent/rational than theists?

(December 12, 2017 at 10:36 am)Hammy Wrote:

(December 12, 2017 at 12:11 am)Dnte Wrote: Most scholars say Jesus existed. Ok but... I was thinking about the Bible. I've read the whole new testament and some parts of the old testament (probably 1/3 of it.)

I was thinking that maybe Jesus (the human prophet) staged all his miracles and made people believe he did all those things. His followers were religious zealots, so they helped him out. He probably paid someone to act as if they were blind/cripple/etc. and when he touched them, the person would have pretented he was cured. 

When he was executed for being a public annoyance, his followers removed his body from the tomb and made everyone believe he resurrected and went to heaven. Over time, the early christians wrote the new testament books and molded Jesus' story so he could fit the old testament's requierements for being the messiah. And that included the mistranslation of young woman = virgin. So Mary was in fact no virgin at all and had several children besides Jesus. And Joseph was Jesus' true father (or some other man.)

Jesus story was highly distorted and taken out of proportion by the time the new testament was written. I believe that Jesus was a normal person who used to preach to jews and was born of human parents. 

It makes sense. Jesus never revealed anything that we didn't already know. What's the meaning of life? Where do we come from? Where are we going? He didn't answer those questions. He just preached whatever he believed in when he was alive and that doesn't prove he was anything special, but people are so supertitious and gullible they bought his story. Jews know this, that's why they don't care about christianity. I feel so cheated I want my money back! lol. 

(December 12, 2017 at 10:26 am)Drich Wrote: Intelligence is a measure of indoctrination.

No. Just no. You're thinking of education. Allow me to educate you.



Of course, some of them are born stupid as well.

You can be educated badly, and taught the wrong things, but that has nothing to do with how intelligent or smart you are.

People aren't stupid because they believe stupid things. People believe stupid things because they are stupid.

Based on your life experience, what are the top three stupid things that stupid people are most likely to believe?

Neo-Scholastic Wrote:Let me ask this because these kinds of threads pop-up often enough. Why is it so important for atheists to prove they are more intelligent/rational than theists?

It isn't important, and an average IQ difference, especially if small, says very little about whether a given atheist is smarter than a given theist. It would be completely illogical to say 'atheists average 2 points higher on IQ tests, I'm an atheist and you're a theist, therefore I must have a higher IQ than you'.

If the finding were reversed, it would still be an interesting topic.

(December 13, 2017 at 6:32 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Let me ask this because these kinds of threads pop-up often enough. Why is it so important for atheists to prove they are more intelligent/rational than theists?

I can't answer for most, and I will not create any post that makes such a claim.  But I understand where the temptation comes from, from the point of view of someone who was raised religious.  When I realized that I could not believe, I felt freed and enlightened.  I then read a lot of books and studied a little bit of logic.  I felt as if I had escaped from an ignorant and indoctrinated mindset.  This feeling probably can make a new atheist feel like a new religious convert, wanting to shout from the rooftops that I HAVE FOUND THE TRUTH!  Of course, I (and probably most of us) have endured enough of such preaching to avoid doing it ourselves.

(December 13, 2017 at 6:32 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Let me ask this because these kinds of threads pop-up often enough. Why is it so important for atheists to prove they are more intelligent/rational than theists?

We think it will make you guys feel better. If we're smug and condescending, you guys can shrug it off and talk about what rude, delusional assholes we are. But if we all came out and said, "You know, I'm dumber than dog shit, but even I have enough sense not to believe this nonsense" . . . well, that might sting a bit.

We're thoughtful that way.

(December 13, 2017 at 6:39 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(December 13, 2017 at 6:32 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Let me ask this because these kinds of threads pop-up often enough. Why is it so important for atheists to prove they are more intelligent/rational than theists?

I can't answer for most, and I will not create any post that makes such a claim.  But I understand where the temptation comes from, from the point of view of someone who was raised religious.  When I realized that I could not believe, I felt freed and enlightened.  I then read a lot of books and studied a little bit of logic.  I felt as if I had escaped from an ignorant and indoctrinated mindset.  This feeling probably can make a new atheist feel like a new religious convert, wanting to shout from the rooftops that I HAVE FOUND THE TRUTH!  Of course, I (and probably most of us) have endured enough of such preaching to avoid doing it ourselves.

I had exactly the same experience ages ago. I remember sitting on the EL train and thinking, you know what, I don't believe in God anymore. It felt very liberating at the time.