I'm sure the Quran is not the only reason. Atlas doesn't strike me as a spciopath who would kill people if his faith didn't tell him not to lol.

(December 23, 2017 at 7:06 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm sure the Quran is not the only reason. Atlas doesn't strike me as a spciopath who would kill people if his faith didn't tell him not to lol.

But that's exactly what he said. If he has other reasons, I'd be gratified to know what they are. 

Boru

I'm not sure. I assume in the context of his post he's just explaining why Islam doesn't actually support terrorism? People don't normally refrain from committing mass murder (when they otherwise would) just because their religion tells them not to. If they are religious but they want to kill people, they simply try to make up justification for it in their religion, rather than the other way around. Unless they were born into it I guess, like the Isis children. Frontline documentaries about Isis kids are difficult to watch.

Atlas, you are pointing to the same book as the reason for your non-terrorism as the one used by actual terrorists as the basis for their actions. This simple contradiction means that the book isn't the root cause but your own morality is with which you read and interpret it.

(December 23, 2017 at 4:25 am)ignoramus Wrote: Nobody play him AC/DC backwards! Or there goes the neighborhood!

Clearest backmasking I ever heard !

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(December 23, 2017 at 7:01 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Atlas, you seem to be saying (correct me if I mistook your meaning) that you're not a terrorist because the Quran tells you not to be one. All well and good as far as it goes, but I find your reasoning troubling.  Are we to understand that if you were to lose your faith, you would be a terrorist?  Similarly, suppose that - at some point -you, without losing faith in the Quran as a whole, you were to come to a different interpretation of the verses mentioned. Would you then be opposed to terrorism?  If your faith is the sole reason you reject terrorism, then it is my sincerest wish the you remain steadfast and unchanging in your religious views. 

Personally, I reject terrorism because I been a victim of it and I've seen far too many innocents butchered for political gain. 

Boru

If Islam called for terrorism or the hurting of innocents; I will lose all respect to its author, making me an enemy of the faith.
Believe it or not; I'm willing to go that far -and I think I already did with the Hadith books-.

When I saw that Islam in its Sunni and Shiite versions alike, is bringing down humans to a level lower than imaginable in terms of mercy and respect to other human beings, I lost any respect the sects. That started my current belief.

If I lost respect to the author due to unjustified commands, I will become an enemy of that author.
But until now; every verse made me respect him more and more. I'm grateful that the faith led me to criticize murder, stuff like tactical bombing and nuclear bombing.

Without the religion; I would've been a different person. I have a softer heart due to it; I like that.
I'm sorry for you being a victim of terrorism; Boru.

I have certainly noticed that people on this forum tend to repeatedly misunderstand the point Atlass attempts to make.

(December 23, 2017 at 8:32 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: Atlas, you are pointing to the same book as the reason for your non-terrorism as the one used by actual terrorists as the basis for their actions. This simple contradiction means that the book isn't the root cause but your own morality is with which you read and interpret it.

What I wrote to Minimalist; Magi:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-52735-p...pid1676267

Quote:Justification for actions like terrorism and other brutal crimes (like stoning and killing of gays) is always a syndrome that accompanies the same people that use a certain method to dodge the verses: joining the Hadith books with the Quran. That's how they reach the "other conclusions" you mentioned.

The only way to reach the other conclusion, is to use the Hadith.

Bin Laden is a Sunni : he believes in Hadith.
Khomeini is a Shiite : he believes in Hadith.
The Sauds are Sunnies: they believe in Hadith.
Hezbollah is Shiite: they believe in Hadith.

The list goes on. All terrorists are either Sunni or Shiite.
The Hadith gives you the chance to recite a verse like the above; then say "BUT; the Hadith also said that infedels should be killed; even if peaceful".

With the Quran; it's the blue part only: there is no "BUT".
There is no red part.

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(December 23, 2017 at 10:56 am)Lutrinae Wrote: I have certainly noticed that people on this forum tend to repeatedly misunderstand the point Atlass attempts to make.

I see it this way:

1-A terrorist comes to you
2-The terrorist say he's a Muslim
3-You tell him "But Sura 8, Verse 61" says otherwise.
4-Case closed: the terrorist is checkmate. If he fires a single bullet at you; he is actually rebelling against his own holy book.

(December 23, 2017 at 1:34 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 1:06 am)"Minimalist Wrote: I'll accept your word that YOU are not a terrorist Atlas.  Your problem, whether or not you wish to face it, is that scumbags like bin Laden follow the same book that you do and reach different conclusions.

Religion is whatever anyone wants it to be and the shit that passes for holy "scripture" is most commonly poorly-written enough to be made to agree with them.

Justification for actions like terrorism and other brutal crimes (like stoning and killing of gays) is always a syndrome that accompanies the same people that use a certain method to dodge the verses: joining the Hadith books with the Quran. That's how they reach the "other conclusions" you mentioned.

The only way to reach the other conclusion, is to use the Hadith.

Bin Laden is a Sunni : he believes in Hadith.
Khomeini is a Shiite : he believes in Hadith.
The Sauds are Sunnies: they believe in Hadith.
Hezbollah is Shiite: they believe in Hadith.

The list goes on. All terrorists are either Sunni or Shiite.
The Hadith gives you the chance to recite a verse like the above; then say "BUT; the Hadith also said that infedels should be killed; even if peaceful".

With the Quran; it's the blue part only: there is no "BUT".
There is no red part.

But no one died and made you "pope" ( or whatever.)  It is your fellow co-religionists who disagree with you.

I think all theists are wrong.  Got it now?

It's interesting to think how different I would or wouldn't be if I was raised without religion and currently had no religion.

Obviously I'm sure I wouldn't be killing anyone lol. But would i be different in any way? If so, how? It's always interesting to try to think how much of you is nature vs nurture, and how much is influenced by your beliefs.

You never know Catholic Lady, the mercy of God and grace through his chosen ones has saved so much souls from destruction, and most of souls saved from that destruction would have followed the devil were it not for the grace of God through the anointed purified Kings and exalted leaders and guide he appoints.

I am reading the Bible right now, and I find it amazing the chronology and how things are stated leading to one chapter to the next. I should have read a while back, would have helped me appreciate the Quran more and it's allusions to the Bible more.

Were it not for you scenting the shirt of Prophethood and believing in the anointed Kings of the past, darkness for all you know, could have overwhelmed you.

Be grateful and never see yourself free from the need of God and his guidance to avoid even the severest of sins.