(December 24, 2017 at 7:21 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

Quote:If Islam called for terrorism or the hurting of innocents; I will lose all respect to its author, making me an enemy of the faith.
Believe it or not; I'm willing to go that far -and I think I already did with the Hadith books-.

When I saw that Islam in its Sunni and Shiite versions alike, is bringing down humans to a level lower than imaginable in terms of mercy and respect to other human beings, I lost any respect the sects. That started my current belief.

If I lost respect to the author due to unjustified commands, I will become an enemy of that author.
But until now; every verse made me respect him more and more. I'm grateful that the faith led me to criticize murder, stuff like tactical bombing and nuclear bombing.

Without the religion; I would've been a different person. I have a softer heart due to it; I like that.
I'm sorry for you being a victim of terrorism; Boru.

Delighted to hear your answer.  So, it seems that you would be against terrorism even if you lost faith in Islam.  So, you aren't actually anti-terrorism because of what the Quran says about it, you're anti-terrorism irrespective of what the Quran says about it.  Good to know.

Boru

There's an interesting verse in the Quran:

Quote:Sura 90, The Quran:
( 11 )   But he has not broken through the difficult pass.
( 12 )   And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?
( 13 )   It is the freeing of a slave
( 14 )   Or feeding on a day of severe hunger
( 15 )   An orphan of near relationship
( 16 )   Or a needy person in misery
( 17 )   And then being among those who believed and advised one another to patience and advised one another to compassion.

You do the good deeds first.
Then you believe.

Belief make you better at doing the good deeds.

---

(December 24, 2017 at 8:47 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 2:43 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Hey; if religion is your code of ethics; then it has an influence on you. Take concepts like charity, I'll know that religion affected somebody if I saw them giving.
Fear of hell must've prevented you from doing some stuff at least; right? it did in my case.

Not fear of Hell per se, but the belief that doing it was immoral.

But I'm not sure how different my morals would be if I was irreligious. My morals came from religion, yes, but they all still do make logical sense to me because of natural law and how the world works.

In other words; your morals from the get go made you find a "proper haven" in religion.
I think I get your point; it's the same thing if I'm not mistaken, that I posted to Boru, and the same thing I'm inclined to believe in more:

First you do the good deeds; then religion becomes a proper doctrine to boost your already good deeds.

You said it yourself Atlas, you would discard the book if it disagreed with your internal morals. So you don't need to keep making excuses and finding hidden meanings in your religious text. You're a "good" human because of other natural factors.

Since you already rejected the hadith parts you mention, most will agree that you rejected islam. So basically you just invented your own religion and are hanging onto it for some reason. Quoting the quran like it even makes any difference, in todays world it is outdated and incorrect logically and scientifically. Just admit you're atheist

Quote:Or stay atheist as in your case.

But when somebody take out a sword to chop my head when I preach my views; which don't hurt him or call to hurt him; I know something is totally wrong.

Muslims did not invent that either, Atlas.  Xtians did.  The suppression of heretics began virtually as soon as one group of xtians gained enough political power to get away with it.

(December 25, 2017 at 12:24 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Or stay atheist as in your case.

But when somebody take out a sword to chop my head when I preach my views; which don't hurt him or call to hurt him; I know something is totally wrong.

Muslims did not invent that either, Atlas.  Xtians did.  The suppression of heretics began virtually as soon as one group of xtians gained enough political power to get away with it.

Long before Jews and Christians and Muslims you had Terracotta Warriors, whom were trained to kill and show no mercy to enemies.

Point is Atlas, I don't attack any religion out of spite or revenge. Humans have always been tribal. Islam didn't invent brutality either. But until that part of the world faces it's own backwoods thinking, it will be stuck in the past.

And Atlass, in saying this, the sane are not giving Jews or Christians a pass either. 

Christians didn't invent human cruelty either Minn. They got their mythology from Hebrews, whom got their mythology from the Canaanites. 

But in all of antiquity worldwide, most humans lived under local ruling families/tribes, and since the mortality rate was far higher back then, and considering nobody had our modern understanding of evolution, most humans were fierce in defending their local rulers.

(December 24, 2017 at 8:47 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 23, 2017 at 2:43 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Hey; if religion is your code of ethics; then it has an influence on you. Take concepts like charity, I'll know that religion affected somebody if I saw them giving.
Fear of hell must've prevented you from doing some stuff at least; right? it did in my case.

Not fear of Hell per se, but the belief that doing it was immoral.

But I'm not sure how different my morals would be if I was irreligious. My morals came from religion, yes, but they all still do make logical sense to me because of natural law and how the world works.

It seems as if you're separating religion from reality with this post (which is basically what atheists do). Too much time on atheist forums maybe lol.

(December 25, 2017 at 1:19 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: It should be a lesson to you too, that Sunni religion and Shiite religions are beliefs so different from Islam. Their holy book is a composition between Quran, Hadith and ancient Sunni/Shiite opinions.

So you simply dismiss millions of Muslims that don't interpret Koran as you do. How does this help your argument? That's the "beauty" of religion: you can have "scholars" that spend their whole life studying some book and interpreting it, even convincing millions of people that you're right and then some other person comes along and he is just "Nah, you're wrong" and you can't prove either of them is wrong or right to interpret it.
Muslims see in Koran what they are brought up to see in Koran. As any holy book you can see what ever you want to see in it.

(December 25, 2017 at 7:38 pm)SaStrike Wrote:

(December 24, 2017 at 8:47 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Not fear of Hell per se, but the belief that doing it was immoral.

But I'm not sure how different my morals would be if I was irreligious. My morals came from religion, yes, but they all still do make logical sense to me because of natural law and how the world works.

It seems as if you're separating religion from reality with this post (which is basically what atheists do). Too much time on atheist forums maybe lol.

In terms of morality, I can't imagine mine being different if I were an atheist, because morality can be discovered by observing the world and nature.

What about Sura 9 verse 41. Sura 9 is considered the latest sura and therefore the one with the most importance. In the verse it states that you should go out and fight for Allah. That does not sound peaceful for me at all. And it is ONE good example for condoning terrorism in the quran.