(January 16, 2018 at 6:15 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Good god that sounds like alot of work. 

Since I've been reading and rereading this sad little story so much today....it seems like reciprocity was the compelling factor in why she acted inexplicably. She had one foot in, had just been serviced, and felt like she couldn't pull out now..even though he pulled a surprise aziz and engaged the creep drive at max factor.

Not really. That’s just the first time. You can skip later.

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Nobody said it “ranted” (sic) anything, Tiz. Context.

(January 16, 2018 at 4:16 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 4:10 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Well that's a subjective thing, and I don't really feel like starting down a road that finishes with me being told my reading comprehension sucks. But it's just a funny thing that people say. Blame the other persons reading ability rather than just clarify what you meant.

Particularly from Tiz, who's one of the sloppiest writers on this forum.

You mean we are all sloppy readers. Lol.

(January 16, 2018 at 5:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 5:46 pm)SaStrike Wrote: Pretty sure if you can give a bj "against your will" you can sign a form "against your will" or "under pressure". Consent forms will change nothing. Shit will still happen.

I agree.

Maybe we should try getting to the root of the problem? Promote sexual morality and respect for self and others. Discourage hook up culture. Discourage porn use. Discourage men and women using each other in bed...

Promote the radical idea that sex is a language of self giving love and commitment.

Now there's a thought.

I strongly disagree. Sexual 'morality' is usually just sexual suppression. I prefer a sex-positive culture. Sometimes people just want to fuck, and if everyone involved is OK with that, it is a good thing.

The problem is that we so often encourage people NOT to talk about sexuality or we speak in a way that promotes embarrassment concerning sexuality. And an atmosphere of 'sexual morality' (at least as it is usually portrayed) goes very much with that line. And I think that is horribly damaging. Instead of suppressing our sexuality, we should be promoting it.

When you say we should respect self and others, I agree, but I wonder if we are talking the same language. I believe that it is a positive thing for two (or more) people that want to have sex to have sex. I believe that can be done from a point of respect of both self and others. And it *should* be done in an atmosphere of free communication about boundaries and openness to those who don't want to play or want to play in different ways.

Being 'used' is a matter of perspective. Am I being 'used' if we play tennis together? Why is it being used if we have sex *if* we both want to? If I am not in the mood for tennis, but go along because you want to,  is that me being used? Have you *never* has sex when you weren't in the mood because your partner wanted it? I certainly have. And I wasn't 'being used'.

So, no, if your idea of sexual morality is monogamy, I do not agree. If it involves open communication and listening to partners, I do agree. If it involves taking responsibility for your own actions, then I agree. If it involves *real* respect instead of shame, I agree. THAT is the real sexual morality in my mind.

The problem with classifying this as sexual assault is two-fold. It demeans the meaning of sexual assault to give it the same label as a serious sexual assault.

More importantly, it muddled thw meaning of consent, rather than clarifies it.

Quote:Nobody said it “ranted” (sic) anything, Tiz. Context.

Well so far the theme has been because she allowed for X somehow that lightens the situation .

Quote:Dude, he'd already eaten her out, IIRC. They'd kissed and undressed. The claw may not be pleasant, but it wasn't like, "Hey, I just met you .

(January 16, 2018 at 4:26 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I think it's an interesting observation that most of the women in this thread seem to questioning the accusations (as it pertains to the actions being assault) while most of the men seem to be fine with labeling Aziz as guilty / a rapist.

Small sample size. I'm sure there are plenty of men lurking who would defend Aziz but don't want to because it's not fun to be told as a man that you are defending rape. A woman has more leeway there, because people know that she's not defending rape.

I'll defend Aziz though. Accusations are totally silly, probably not accurate, are offensive to true victims of sexual abuse and amount to the written equivalent of revenge porn. That woman is an adult and can telling him what she wants done.

(January 16, 2018 at 5:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 16, 2018 at 5:46 pm)SaStrike Wrote: Pretty sure if you can give a bj "against your will" you can sign a form "against your will" or "under pressure". Consent forms will change nothing. Shit will still happen.

I agree.

Maybe we should try getting to the root of the problem? Promote sexual morality and respect for self and others. Discourage hook up culture. Discourage porn use. Discourage men and women using each other in bed...

Promote the radical idea that sex is a language of self giving love and commitment.

Now there's a thought.

I just want people to own their choices and use their words.  I wasn't looking to take all the joy out of it, nor do I support waiting until marriage to begin developing your sex life.

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(January 16, 2018 at 6:04 pm)Khemikal Wrote: and this is crazy, but heres my number, so claw me maybe.

Fixed that for you.  Although my ear/memory for lyrics is in the Homer Simpson range.

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(January 16, 2018 at 6:05 pm)Shell B Wrote: Imma pee my pants.

But surely not on a first date.  

(January 16, 2018 at 8:36 pm)Whateverist. Wrote:

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(January 16, 2018 at 6:04 pm)Khemikal Wrote: and this is crazy, but heres my number, so claw me maybe.

Fixed that for you.  

Is that what that little boy was singing?

Fuck, Tiz. CONTEXT.

I said "grabbing someone's tit isn't something you do to initiate sex."

Khem said, "but the claw apparently is."

I pointed out how it wasn't the initiating move in this scenario. I didn't say "hey, man. Totes cool to ram your fingers down someone's mouth." I just pointed out the obvious difference between starting off there and it being a failed move after you've already got down, so to speak. That doesn't mean it was a smooth, smart move. And, just to be utterly clear, if she said "I don't like you putting your fingers in my mouth" after the first time he did it, her testimony suggests he would have stopped doing it. It would have been a one time fuck up instead of a repeated violation, assuming we've got the facts right.

@everyone defending this dude, will you have the same attitude if this happened to your daughter?