Meh, don't take it too seriously. We end up fielding alot of the same types of conversations and heat bleeds over. Some differences of opinion are so pervasive that they begin to have a life of their own.

Speaking for myself, if the bible were true to every jot and tittle I still couldn't stomach bowing to it's god. I not only doubt the veracity of the claims, I am repulsed by their very nature.

(August 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm)salty Wrote: For anyone responding, you are not late, I am excited to hear your answers! I have learned a lot, this experience is very humbling. For those Christians that have burned you, me included, I apologize. For Christians that have remained faithful and good friends to you, I ask that you keep them in mind when unkind Christians terrorize your neighborhood....

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LastPoet, it's not my intention to sway you, Searchingforanswers asked me a question, and I answered.

What have you learned?

(August 25, 2011 at 2:55 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(August 25, 2011 at 2:46 pm)salty Wrote: Searchingforanswers, I hope you can see that he does not condemn anyone without their permission and if someone wants faith, they can have it, faith is free, it's available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It all begins with a reasonable doubt in this life and then you seek the Lord. Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Amen.

Salty, btw, did you happen to see our little "rules for theists" section?

I did. I read them. Someone else mentioned it was a bit preachy. Is it offensive? Maybe I should take it down. I don't want you all to feel I'm pushing. I was answering the question, those are all the reasons I believe Christ is the best choice. I'll edit it. I don't want to be separated from my new friends!!!!!!

(August 25, 2011 at 3:11 pm)salty Wrote: I did. I read them. Someone else mentioned it was a bit preachy. Is it offensive? Maybe I should take it down. I don't want you all to feel I'm pushing. I was answering the question, those are all the reasons I believe Christ is the best choice. I'll edit it. I don't want to be separated from my new friends!!!!!!

A big wall of text like that begins to look as if you're trying to preach. If that's not your object, I would ask that you reconsider how you're writing it so that it's clear you're trying to answer a question, not "spread the good word," as it were.

You have a limited amount of time in which you can edit a post, so be mindful.

(August 25, 2011 at 3:13 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(August 25, 2011 at 3:11 pm)salty Wrote: I did. I read them. Someone else mentioned it was a bit preachy. Is it offensive? Maybe I should take it down. I don't want you all to feel I'm pushing. I was answering the question, those are all the reasons I believe Christ is the best choice. I'll edit it. I don't want to be separated from my new friends!!!!!!

A big wall of text like that begins to look as if you're trying to preach. If that's not your object, I would ask that you reconsider how you're writing it so that it's clear you're trying to answer a question, not "spread the good word," as it were.

You have a limited amount of time in which you can edit a post, so be mindful.

Hmm...I took away the last sentence but I kept everything else. Maybe I can make it a little shorter. I'll take another look.

(August 25, 2011 at 3:17 pm)salty Wrote: Hmm...I took away the last sentence but I kept everything else. Maybe I can make it a little shorter. I'll take another look.

It's not necessary. Just be more careful in the future. Also, if you do post something like that, be prepared for people to pick it apart. We've lost quite a few theists who took things too personally. If you're really here to learn, understand that claims like those will have to be backed.

(August 25, 2011 at 3:20 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(August 25, 2011 at 3:17 pm)salty Wrote: Hmm...I took away the last sentence but I kept everything else. Maybe I can make it a little shorter. I'll take another look.

It's not necessary. Just be more careful in the future. Also, if you do post something like that, be prepared for people to pick it apart. We've lost quite a few theists who took things too personally. If you're really here to learn, understand that claims like those will have to be backed.

Aw man...I just shortened it! It's okay, I'm not going to take it personally, if people here didn't like me they would not only tell me, but they wouldn't respond to my posts. Also, if people give up just because someone disagrees then they didn't really want to be dedicated to a friendship in the first place. I have a friend that has nothing positive to say about anything I tell him in person, but he was the first one to check on me when I wasn't acting normal.

Also, religion requires faith, and the people on this site are intelligent, they've heard the claims before, as you have, they decide for themselves, I don't think I need to defend every single thing I say, people can see it as ridiculous, I still love the Lord.

No disrespect salty but your answer just confirmed to me your God is no different than the religons you criticized.

(August 25, 2011 at 2:46 pm)salty Wrote: According to the Bible, Jesus was among us, living and teaching, even healing people at one time, and still many did not believe he was the Messiah. Christians believe that the Bible is God's word and his testimony of what happened, what is happening and what will happen in the end. The Bible is our way of following the real Jesus by studying and acting in accordance with the Holy Spirit.

According to scholarship the real Jesus was a pious Jew who inherited an apocalyptic Jewish cult from his mentor John the bapitiser, after John was beheaded by the son of Herod. He went around proclaiming a wholly Jewish message equivalent to the end of the world is nigh with his brothers (also pious Jews). He was credited with healing, interestingly casting out demons, which seems a little ineffective as a treatment for physical disorders. He never claimed to be a god.

The bible is an extremely poor source of validating truth claims, this has been proven time and time again even by very motivated xtian and Jewish archaeologists and historians. Apart from portraying a terrifying message and giving upteen laws on how to run bronze age villages, it is an inconsistent and political document, and if it is the revealed word of a god, we really drew the god short straw in our universe. The only part of the bible authored by a god directly is the 10 commandments, and if you are a god and creator of billions of galaxies each with billions of stars, the only things you want to say to your creatures is: 1 don't call me names and love only me, me, me, 2 don't do shit on Saturdays, 3 dont do that stealing, lying and killing stuff 4 oh yeah and dont cock an enviously glance at your neighbors donkey. Name 1 thing in the bible that could only have come from a god, and cannot be the scribblings of bronze and iron age men.

The rest of your sermon is similarly flawed.

In the lovely tradition of picking things apart.

According to the Bible............
If you're going to base any claim to truth from what you read in the bible, you'll need to show that the bible is a reliable source of said truth. That being said:


1. God promises to show himself to people who are really seeking him. (Meaning, if someone hasn't found him, it's because they are not seeking with a humble heart, they seek with certain expectations of what God should be to them and God will not submit to human expectations. Just as you would not follow the commands of a toddler.)
This absolves god of any responsibility while simultaneously condemning man for what the creator should have already known about him when he was created.

2. God promises to never abandon us and he shows his love by the sacrifice that he made to redeem us from sin.
What sacrifice, what sin? I understand that you believe that these things happened, but why?

3. God tells us that we have a purpose, that we were created for Jesus and by Jesus, and each person is given gifts and talents to use to bring others to know him so that everyone can be welcomed into paradise. He doesn't demand that we hurt ourselves to glorify him, but he does warn that following him could mean brutal torture (martyrdom) at the hands of his enemy, Lucifer.
Again, what reason do you have to believe this? Our talents come from god but not our faults? Seems a bit one sided. Care to add up the number of non-christians that have been martryed against the number of christians?

4. God does not want to see any perish, but people who reject him are essentially accepting his enemy, Lucifer, as their master, he makes it very clear there are only two sides and he created Hell for Lucifer, therefore anyone who serves Lucifer will have a share in his punishment.
With me or against me eh? Damn the implications.

5. Salvation is a free gift, given to us by the sacrifice of Jesus, we do not need to log any service hours, we do not need to say a certain number of hail Mary's, we don't need to go to church every day and speak only certain words or wear certain things, or pray in certain positions, all we need to do is believe that Jesus rose from the dead, that his sacrifice was real and that he is God. We also need to use the Bible as a guide to understand what he plans for our lives and how to respond to evil when it comes our way.
A free gift that does indeed demand that you accept the word, and all moral judgements, regardless of your own personal opinion or compass

6. Heaven is a place where the Lord promises to wipe away all sorrow and suffering. In heaven I will be able to speak and touch the Lord. I believe that he will reveal to me all the questions I've had, and the reason why people I thought wouldn't be present are present and people I thought would be there are not. Heaven is also a place where I will see all my family members that have chosen Christ, and we will be like the angels, not given in marriage or married. We will have jobs, homes, and a reward for believing without seeing God, but most of all, we will have a personal connection with Christ for eternity. In religions like, Buddhism there's this idea of reincarnation, which means that it's unlikely I will ever see my family members again, I could become a butterfly in the next life, while others become different creatures, and we'll never be reunited, I believe that we were made to interact with other humans and that relationships are what make us thrive, losing that...means losing our humanity.
Firstly heaven is a place? Why is it that this place seems to be filled with things you enjoy, should my heaven look like your heaven? Do you think it does?

7. God promises that when he appears, anyone who calls on his name will be saved, which means that when he returns he's not Godzilla just crushing everyone under his strength, he's going to give people who needed to see him the opportunity to choose in that moment as well! Many religions teach that once it's over, it's over, but the Lord shows repeatedly that he gives people time to come to him, like he did when Noah was building the ark!
I've already alluded to this. If god appeared, I wouldn't bend my knee. There are tyrants here on earth that I refuse to worship, his appearence would only increase their number

8. Finally, God promises that when we become eternal we will never be tempted again because he will extinguish all sin and evil, and he will judge everyone fairly, according to the things they have done in their lifetime. The best part of this mystery is that we do not fully understand what will happen to some people, there are people who are covered with the sacrifice of Jesus and they don't even know his name! Therefore during judgment they may be plenty of people that will give an account for their deeds and find they were covered by the grace of Jesus. Judgement belongs to God alone!
Perhaps he should have done all of this in the first place