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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:13 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2011 at 2:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I find the tendency to argue over what a word means tedious. If your explanation of your faith hinges upon favorable definitions of words I'm thoroughly uninterested. By your logic (you too Sae) i could refer to the color of the sky by claiming that:
The pancake is bubbleguts.
The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. As light moves through the atmosphere, most of the longer wavelengths pass straight through. Little of the red, orange and yellow light is affected by the air. You can call blue purple if you like, but whatever you believe it to be has no effect on what it is. A clear distinction between belief and knowledge right there. If you want to have a discussion about faith, fine. If you want to have a discussion about knowledge, fine. I won't engage in a debate over words, the only purpose of which is to avoid discussing the subject of contention. Some believe that Genesis is a literal account, however we know that it is not. That's one example, and one of the reasons I'm an atheist.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:14 pm
(August 26, 2011 at 1:41 pm)salty Wrote: Sae...I'm so impressed by your openness to doubting and believing, to reacting to faith and knowledge.
I am actually a rather close-minded person. That does not mean I should not be aware of the associated risks 
Quote:I find myself rushing for your next response, thank you for defending the right to believe and to doubt your beliefs with such humility and grace, judging no one, taking away from no one, just expressing.
My responses probably shouldn't be sought out, as I add little to any discussion. I judge everyone (and everything) I have a mind to think about 
Quote:I'm going to work on that! Watch over me, correct my approach, please!
Being as I'm not a teacher, I am unqualified to watch over you. You should look to Tackattack or Statler instead for that 
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:16 pm
(August 26, 2011 at 1:37 pm)LastPoet Wrote: (August 26, 2011 at 1:19 pm)salty Wrote: (...)I KNOW is above my own.
It is sad when a decent, thoughtfull human being, gives thanks to an imaginary being putted there through early indoctrination and social pressure...
Cant you fucking accept that you are capable of clear reasonable thoughts? I guess that's how your particular death cult operates, relinquishes all their followers from virtue and gives it to the egothistical attention whore that the Xtian god is supposed to be...
I would say that I have clear thinking, I'm reasoning with you aren't I? You and I are talking about these thoughts and these "wrong" beliefs I have, what closed minded person would seek to discuss things? Also, what virtues have I relinquished? What do you know about me? I see no problem with loving something "imaginary" especially if the pretend force is molding me into a more patient person, a person who seeks to know more about others, help them if possible and seeks to dedicate time and energy to building others up. What's wrong with that kind of lifestyle? Why are you showing so much anger for my "ignorant" thoughts? Have I ever been angry at your opposing ways?
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:19 pm
Tell me, how does faith keep you safe? How does faith affect the physical?
Quote:Anyone can have knowledge of an empty cup because this world tells us what liquids and solids look and feel like.
The world tells us nothing, only our senses tell us anything.
Quote:But could you have faith that the cup was empty if you 30 paces away from it?
No, if I can see how much there is, then why have faith? If I can't see how full it is, I will not assume it's full nor empty. I always apply Occam's razer, state the obvious and only opt for explanations that require the fewest assumptions.
Quote:Or would you have to have faith from the knowledge that Sae gives you, when she tells you it's empty?
Nope, it's based on credibility.
Quote:If you're wondering if I believe in the story of creation. I do.
Oh dear.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:22 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2011 at 2:22 pm by LastPoet.)
(August 26, 2011 at 2:16 pm)salty Wrote: (August 26, 2011 at 1:37 pm)LastPoet Wrote: (August 26, 2011 at 1:19 pm)salty Wrote: (...)I KNOW is above my own.
It is sad when a decent, thoughtfull human being, gives thanks to an imaginary being putted there through early indoctrination and social pressure...
Cant you fucking accept that you are capable of clear reasonable thoughts? I guess that's how your particular death cult operates, relinquishes all their followers from virtue and gives it to the egothistical attention whore that the Xtian god is supposed to be...
I would say that I have clear thinking, I'm reasoning with you aren't I? You and I are talking about these thoughts and these "wrong" beliefs I have, what closed minded person would seek to discuss things? Also, what virtues have I relinquished? What do you know about me? I see no problem with loving something "imaginary" especially if the pretend force is molding me into a more patient person, a person who seeks to know more about others, help them if possible and seeks to dedicate time and energy to building others up. What's wrong with that kind of lifestyle? Why are you showing so much anger for my "ignorant" thoughts? Have I ever been angry at your opposing ways?
As clear as the Mississipi water. Sorry but this is my honest 2 cents, not angry in the slightest way, just sad and the reason for that is in the post you quote.
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:23 pm
(August 26, 2011 at 2:14 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: (August 26, 2011 at 1:41 pm)salty Wrote: Sae...I'm so impressed by your openness to doubting and believing, to reacting to faith and knowledge.
I am actually a rather close-minded person. That does not mean I should not be aware of the associated risks
Quote:I find myself rushing for your next response, thank you for defending the right to believe and to doubt your beliefs with such humility and grace, judging no one, taking away from no one, just expressing.
My responses probably shouldn't be sought out, as I add little to any discussion. I judge everyone (and everything) I have a mind to think about
Quote:I'm going to work on that! Watch over me, correct my approach, please!
Being as I'm not a teacher, I am unqualified to watch over you. You should look to Tackattack or Statler instead for that
Sae, you teach in your own way, because teaching is leading by example. Thank you for your suggestions, I'll consider what you've said.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:23 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2011 at 2:34 pm by Violet.)
(August 26, 2011 at 1:55 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Oh no, you started Sae on her faith rants again 
Agent 23: It's not over Max, I'll take that briefcase.
Maxwell Smart: If you want it, you'll have to take it.
Agent 23: [pause] That's what I just said!
Maxwell Smart: I know, I'm just trying to annoy you!
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:24 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2011 at 2:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 26, 2011 at 2:16 pm)salty Wrote: I see no problem with loving something "imaginary" especially if the pretend force is molding me into a more patient person, a person who seeks to know more about others, help them if possible and seeks to dedicate time and energy to building others up. What's wrong with that kind of lifestyle? Why are you showing so much anger for my "ignorant" thoughts? Have I ever been angry at your opposing ways?
That's all well and good. The very same also molds folks into the kind of people that fly planes into buildings. Or burn people alive. Or exterminate entire races of "savages". The problem with imaginary underpinnings of reality is that they are so malleable as to lead to just about anything. While you may feel compelled to do good by your faith, many do not, or redefine what is good. Your god and my atheism may both lead to wonderful things, the caveat is that atheism can never command me to genocide.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:28 pm
(August 26, 2011 at 2:22 pm)LastPoet Wrote: (August 26, 2011 at 2:16 pm)salty Wrote: (August 26, 2011 at 1:37 pm)LastPoet Wrote: (August 26, 2011 at 1:19 pm)salty Wrote: (...)I KNOW is above my own.
It is sad when a decent, thoughtfull human being, gives thanks to an imaginary being putted there through early indoctrination and social pressure...
Cant you fucking accept that you are capable of clear reasonable thoughts? I guess that's how your particular death cult operates, relinquishes all their followers from virtue and gives it to the egothistical attention whore that the Xtian god is supposed to be...
I would say that I have clear thinking, I'm reasoning with you aren't I? You and I are talking about these thoughts and these "wrong" beliefs I have, what closed minded person would seek to discuss things? Also, what virtues have I relinquished? What do you know about me? I see no problem with loving something "imaginary" especially if the pretend force is molding me into a more patient person, a person who seeks to know more about others, help them if possible and seeks to dedicate time and energy to building others up. What's wrong with that kind of lifestyle? Why are you showing so much anger for my "ignorant" thoughts? Have I ever been angry at your opposing ways?
As clear as the Mississipi water. Sorry but this is my honest 2 cents, not angry in the slightest way, just sad and the reason for that is in the post you quote.
I'm not sorry that you're honest. I wouldn't have it any other way, besides, no one can truly be my friend if they're dishonest, they wouldn't be able to keep up with me. I'm a very intense speaker in person, some would even say....intimidating. But on here, I'm just...Salty
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6
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RE: What are your answers?
August 26, 2011 at 2:30 pm
(August 26, 2011 at 2:13 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I find the tendency to argue over what a word means tedious. If your explanation of your faith hinges upon favorable definitions of words I'm thoroughly uninterested. By your logic (you too Sae) i could refer to the color of the sky by claiming that:
The pancake is bubbleguts.
The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. As light moves through the atmosphere, most of the longer wavelengths pass straight through. Little of the red, orange and yellow light is affected by the air. You can call blue purple if you like, but whatever you believe it to be has no effect on what it is. A clear distinction between belief and knowledge right there. If you want to have a discussion about faith, fine. If you want to have a discussion about knowledge, fine. I won't engage in a debate over words, the only purpose of which is to avoid discussing the subject of contention. Some believe that Genesis is a literal account, however we know that it is not. That's one example, and one of the reasons I'm an atheist.
He's so close, it's cute 
The cool thing about color: it can be seen differently. Take faithnomore for instance: can't see all of the colors I see. Poor chap doesn't know what 'purple' is
The cool thing about everything: it is experienced individually. The purpose of language, then... is not to describe something apparent to everyone: it is to describe one's own experiences and to see how it compares to others 
I'm not calling blue 'purple', Rhythm dear: I'm claiming it is actually purple. Because really... how does my perception of the sky's color affect you? The sky gets black at night, and turns to a huge rainbow during the morning/evening. It all becomes purple for midday though, and that's why it's awesome
Debating what to call things is boring... debating what things are (ie: blue or purple) is where one's insights come in.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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