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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:02 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2018 at 3:03 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
No, it doesn't, and all people "walk within the borders of morality".
If you're comfortable in just saying shit like that I don't think I'm required to do anything but say you're wrong.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:06 pm
(January 25, 2018 at 11:49 am)wallym Wrote: (January 25, 2018 at 11:36 am)Cyberman Wrote: Those things you listed are fundamentally different from any post-mortem judgement and ensuing punishment - I know they exist and can be taken from me without any notice. However, it's even more basic than the fear of losing what I have which prevents me from raping, killing and torturing, or even lying, stealing and cheating - I simply don't want to. I'm not wired that way. That some people think that the only thing stopping them being 'evil', for want of a better word, is fear of reprisal - illusory or otherwise - is a revealing commentary about them, as opposed to a thing lacking in me.
Why don't you want to do it, is the trick. It's all very tenuous.
No, it's actually the opposite of that. I specifically stated that I'm not wired that way. I quite simply do not have it in me deliberately to inflict harm on another being (unless you're a spider, in which case all bets are off).
(January 25, 2018 at 11:49 am)wallym Wrote: In my opinion, what keeps us from being awful is circumstance. If you and I were born 200 years ago, we'd very likely have no problem owning some slaves. 400 years ago, we'd almost certainly be devoutly religious, maybe burning some people for witchcraft? I don't think there's anything special about you and I that we aren't out raping and stealing. What's special is the circumstances into which we were born. That's primarily what's kept us from being a terrible people. A coincidence of time and place.
To channel my inner Thunderf00t, were I to find myself suddenly transported into those times with the same mind I have at present, ie I'm the sazme person as I am now, then no I would not do those things. I could not do those things. On the other hand, if I was to find myself a product of my time, then that person would not be me to the extent that I could not say either way how I might behave. That's why I can reflect on the worst periods in history and think how terrible that people were subjected to them.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:09 pm
(January 25, 2018 at 11:23 am)LastPoet Wrote: (January 25, 2018 at 10:34 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I'm not a terrorist because I fear a lord. Fear a day of judgement.
That has to be one of the scariest shit someone can say.
I am not a teerorist because I want to foster a better world for everyone and by doing that fostering a better world for my descendants. I am not a terrorist because I know pain and I don't want others to feel it. I am not a terrorist because they are all cowards, pretending to be warriors. Most of them would run away before me, without bombs or machine guns.
That day of judgement will come. But in your lifetime. You aren't getting free without accounting.
Exactly my reaction, as if his personal inclination is to kill as many as possible but .. you know .. eternal damnation so maybe not today.
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:12 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2018 at 3:16 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It actually does take some work to get people to hurt each other. The work can be intentional....indoctrination and drilling, or it can be circumstancial, privation..starvation, direct application of motherfucking pain (  )....but the cases in which a person just wakes up one day out of the blue and does something horrible are rare and remarkable.
There's just no impetus to it, it's not how any of us are wired, in a general sense. I guess we iagine that there are people who wander around shooting people and it never weighs on them...but I sometimes wonder if anyone who thinks that has ever shot anyone. You can hate person, hate everything about them, think that you're in the right to do it...and they'll still feature in your dreams, decades after the fact. You may feel good, overall, about what you've done..but it's a rare bird that feels good about the killing itself.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:13 pm
(January 25, 2018 at 1:52 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: (January 25, 2018 at 11:37 am)Minimalist Wrote: Usually because of some fucking god or other such primitive shit.
Evil people will do evil things but for a good person to do evil takes a strong idea and religion fits the bill.
I never did understand that quote that I keep seeing around here. It doesn't mean religious ideals are, in and of themselves, intrinsically bad. Which is what I think the quote is trying to convey. Obviously any strong idea can influence you do bad things if it's a bad idea lol. And likewise a strong idea can influence you to do good things if it's a good idea. We can't just talk about ideas in isolation as though they are all the same, whether they came from religion or not.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:14 pm
(January 25, 2018 at 11:24 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I really don't hold to the seemingly-popular viewpoint that humans are just naturally pieces of shit and that given a chance without consequences everyone would be killing/raping/stealing with abandon. Most people are just good people. Our upbringing is a huge part of that, but so are the natural tendencies with which we've been engendered by evolution (altruism, etc). Most people are already raping and killing exactly as many people as they want, the number just happens to be 0.
The fact that some people do some shitty things in some situations doesn't change that. We just focus SO much more on the negatives.
The bold part:
I disagree. I think all people have fear inside of them with different levels; and in many cases that's what moves them.
Take work as an example: many work because they fear sleeping in the street; even though they hate their jobs.
When fear is gone; deterrence is gone; and revolting against the norms and moral codes arise. Put somebody under the right conditions; and you'll probably get out with the desired result: good or evil. But it's always gray.
Or: nobody is perfect. I think under the right conditions, humans would eat each other but a few.
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:21 pm
(January 25, 2018 at 10:45 am)Cyberman Wrote: I don't fear any of those things, yet I have never committed atrocities. Why is that?
Because you are more moral than most religious people. You do what is right because it is right, not out of fear of punishment.
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:22 pm
(This post was last modified: January 25, 2018 at 3:25 pm by Cyberman.)
There is another option besides good on one side and evil on the other. It's known as neutral.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:25 pm
(January 25, 2018 at 3:21 pm)Wololo Wrote: (January 25, 2018 at 10:45 am)Cyberman Wrote: I don't fear any of those things, yet I have never committed atrocities. Why is that?
Because you are more moral than most religious people. You do what is right because it is right, not out of fear of punishment.
Well, I'd like to think so, and if others think similarly then that's a trend I'm content to follow. I do have to say I'm thankful that I don't need to consult a book, or a figment of someone's imagination, to find out what I'm not meant to do each day.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Why some humans are so evil: double standards and irreligion
January 25, 2018 at 3:26 pm
IKR, like the reason that most of us -don't- molest children isn't because we're good people, or because we fear punishment if caught.
Just....don't......wanna.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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