(January 26, 2018 at 2:12 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(January 25, 2018 at 3:09 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Exactly my reaction, as if his personal inclination is to kill as many as possible but .. you know .. eternal damnation so maybe not today.

Not really. Your cherry-picked what you wanted to see from my words only.

When did I say that all humans "deserve to be killed"?
Ironically; you ignored this line from my OP:

Quote:punish the people who corrupt the earth; and do it with everybody: starting with yourself.

I specified who I see deserving death.
Add to that, that I'm a Muslim. I already believe in a verse my constitution has, that said "an eye for an eye". So you can't kill that who didn't kill.

Unlike nationalists who see that "even civilians living in an other country are legitimate targets in the case of war".

Actually; tactical bombing and atomic weapons -and the ownership of your government to them- makes your post pretty ironic.
The terrorist is the monster piloting that plane. Not me. I get bombed with the other sand slaves.

if there is anything about America, at least with our far right, is the "kill em all". I want to throat punch these fuckers because regardless of going after the perps, innocent civilians still get caught up in it regardless. Now, I am not saying America should always stay out of something. It is bad enough humans get to the point of war, but damn, lets not glorify it. 

It is the same bullshit with Mexicans too, "Deport them all!". And all I can think about are my Hispanic neighbors whom have never given me a lick of trouble. 

War sucks, death sucks, and humans can be cruel to each other. But carpet assumption of guilt and scapegoating an entire label doesn't solve shit, and innocent humans get hurt when people think like that.

(January 25, 2018 at 11:40 am)Cyberman Wrote:

(January 25, 2018 at 11:24 am)Nay_Sayer Wrote: You're a soulless robot.  

Cybermen are Human 2.0, with all weaknesses pertaining to emotions removed. Robots are inferior slaves and tools to achieve logical goals.

Fair enough, You are the superior being.  Allow me as a token of submission to give you this gold medallion.

Just don't grind it up and clog up my chest unit with it. I'm not one of those namby-pamby tinplate efforts allergic to their own shadow (yet like to paint their guns gold).

(January 26, 2018 at 7:19 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(January 25, 2018 at 4:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Sorry, you made it sound like losing my humanity would be the final step of/intention of my faith, if I were to go that far.

I suppose you are right about the goal of my faith being to be "submissive to authority." Though that's an interesting way of putting it. Most of us would say that the goal is to strive to live by God's commandments... and I was taught that God commands us to love other people and do good for other people. Because all people have inherent dignity. Nearly all morality revolves around that basic fundamental principle.

Anyway, this whole interaction between you and I started because I told DownBeatDrum that religious ideals arent in and of themselves, inherently bad. It just depends on what the ideals are. Religious ideals can influence a person to do good or they can influence them to do bad, depending on what the religious ideals are... like any other ideals we live our life by. I'm still not sure how our discussion has followed that.

See the point I am trying to make is that religious ideals are not exactly the same as other ideals because with other ideals people are choosing the ideals of their own volition entirely, bad people are drawn to bad ideals and vice-versa, but with religious ideals, even good people can come under the influence of bad ideals quite easily because they have been conditioned to be "submissive to authority".

I would argue that a person still chooses to follow that religion "by their own volition". Contrary to what appears to be popular belief around here, us theists aren't mindless drones. If Christianity all of the sudden states that rape is good and that Jesus commands us to rape people in order to multiply, I would no longer be a Christian. But it doesn't. It states the opposite.

Good people can fall under a bad influence for any reason, bad religion only being one of them. And as i keep saying, it works the other way around too. A bad person can be influenced to do good because of good religion, or because of any other positive influene.

An annoying inconsistency I keep seeing here is the quickness to blame a person's religion for every bad act they commit. But when a religious person is influenced by their religion to do good , such as all the religious charities and church fundraisers for the needy, all of the sudden the argument becomes "Oh, well, their religion has nothing to do with them doing these good things." I've seen it multiple times. (Though I suppose I've also seen "They're only doing good things so they can win points for Heaven, that's it." Either way it's pretry unfair and extremely inconsistent)

(January 25, 2018 at 3:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 25, 2018 at 1:52 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Evil people will do evil things but for a good person to do evil takes a strong idea and religion fits the bill.

I never did understand that quote that I keep seeing around here. It doesn't mean religious ideals are, in and of themselves, intrinsically bad. Which is what I think the quote is trying to convey. Obviously any strong idea can influence you do bad things if it's a bad idea lol. And likewise a strong idea can influence you to do good things if it's a good idea. We can't just talk about ideas in isolation as though they are all the same, whether they came from religion or not.

Well that's almost exactly what I said. I did say "strong idea" and then pointed out that one such example was religion.
Communism is a good idea and yet people have killed for it.

(January 26, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 7:19 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: See the point I am trying to make is that religious ideals are not exactly the same as other ideals because with other ideals people are choosing the ideals of their own volition entirely, bad people are drawn to bad ideals and vice-versa, but with religious ideals, even good people can come under the influence of bad ideals quite easily because they have been conditioned to be "submissive to authority".

I would argue that a person still chooses to follow that religion "by their own volition". Contrary to what appears to be popular belief around here, us theists aren't mindless drones. If Christianity all of the sudden states that rape is good and that Jesus commands us to rape people in order to multiply, I would no longer be a Christian. But it doesn't. It states the opposite.

Good people can fall under a bad influence for any reason, bad religion only being one of them. And as i keep saying, it works the other way around too. A bad person can be influenced to do good because of good religion, or because of any other positive influene.

An annoying inconsistency I keep seeing here is the quickness to blame a person's religion for every bad act they commit. But when a religious person is influenced by their religion to do good , such as all the religious charities and church fundraisers for the needy, all of the sudden the argument becomes "Oh, well, their religion has nothing to do with them doing these good things." I've seen it multiple times. (Though I suppose I've also seen "They're only doing good things so they can win points for Heaven, that's it." Either way it's pretry unfair and extremely inconsistent)

Um no, please don't make blanket statements about our individual beliefs as if we share the same views, you should know better having been here as long as you have.

I say HUMANs get sold the religions of their parents long before they can formulate adult critical thinking skills. AND that is a fact for the world in our species history. MOST humans get introduced to a religion by their parents. If you were born in Iran, the probability of being raised a Shiite Muslim is high. If you are born in India, you have a high probability of being raised Sikh or Hindu. If you are born in Israel you are highly likely to be raised a Jew. If you are born in Tibet, you are likely to be raised Buddhist.

When I say, "That was then, this is now." I am NOT saying every theist is a mindless robot. I AM SAYING their logic is flawed and their perceptions are flawed. 

I have said, and it is true, that religions WORLDWIDE OF ALL LABELS, point to their charities and good works. Nobody is arguing they don't exist. Theists CERTAINLY are capable of compassion. WHAT I DOUBT, and what many atheists doubt, is where theists think that ability is really coming from. You'd say it is in your religion. Muslims would say it is in theirs. Hindus theirs, Buddhists theirs. I'd say it was already in our genes long before any written religion was invented.

Humans do good, in the same way your dog might protect you from an attacker. We evolved to be social. No magic needed, no holy book needed to explain nature.

(January 26, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 7:19 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: See the point I am trying to make is that religious ideals are not exactly the same as other ideals because with other ideals people are choosing the ideals of their own volition entirely, bad people are drawn to bad ideals and vice-versa, but with religious ideals, even good people can come under the influence of bad ideals quite easily because they have been conditioned to be "submissive to authority".

I would argue that a person still chooses to follow that religion "by their own volition". Contrary to what appears to be popular belief around here, us theists aren't mindless drones. If Christianity all of the sudden states that rape is good and that Jesus commands us to rape people in order to multiply, I would no longer be a Christian. But it doesn't. It states the opposite.

Good people can fall under a bad influence for any reason, bad religion only being one of them. And as i keep saying, it works the other way around too. A bad person can be influenced to do good because of good religion, or because of any other positive influene.

An annoying inconsistency I keep seeing here is the quickness to blame a person's religion for every bad act they commit. But when a religious person is influenced by their religion to do good , such as all the religious charities and church fundraisers for the needy, all of the sudden the argument becomes "Oh, well, their religion has nothing to do with them doing these good things." I've seen it multiple times. (Though I suppose I've also seen "They're only doing good things so they can win points for Heaven, that's it." Either way it's pretry unfair and extremely inconsistent)

No most people are brought into religion much before they can "choose". Let me ask you this, why do you choose to be a "catholic" instead of a "vaishnab"(a sect of vishnu worshippers in hinduism) or a sikh?

Yes, in this society rape is considered bad and our laws about it are not perfect, but how the old testament deals with rape is morally much worse. I mean do you think it is good to force someone to marry their rapist? Yes these days people can ignore these in the name of new testament because our society has evolved, but in the past people didn't just stop being christians due to these bad parts of christianity, rather they embraced it. Would you say every christian who believed the old testament was a bad person? Or was christianity a bad religion if not for the new testament?

Humans are weak by nature.
They face a powerful deceiver a dark enemy and a former Angel.


The only solution is to rely on reliable means to God, and that has to be proven from God to be the means. But how to be proven, but through the means that God has chosen.

As long as people search others for proofs that the divine proof God appointed for humanity is chosen to provide and the guidance of that proof is guidance from God, we will only further ourselves from reality and the path.

Hows being religious working out for this one, up above...do you think..Atlass?

(January 26, 2018 at 4:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Humans are weak by nature.
They face a powerful deceiver a dark enemy and a former Angel.


The only solution is to rely on reliable means to God, and that has to be proven from God to be the means. But how to be proven, but through the means that God has chosen.

As long as people search others for proofs that the divine proof God appointed for humanity is chosen to provide and the guidance of that proof is guidance from God, we will only further ourselves from reality and the path.

What the actual fuck are you jabbering about?