(January 26, 2018 at 3:57 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 3:06 pm)GodisintheTV Wrote: Well, I don't forum much, so clearly I haven't figured out how to properly quote or nuthin. (Oh, the frustration. Fucking hate computers.) But Dawkins' book is a wonderful introduction to atheism (although I'm sure there are many others) and I'm convinced he's right. I've been subjected to lots of philosophy at the hands of my English professors, and indeed much of it is insightful and beautifully written. I give the scientists the upper hand when it comes to being objectively correct, however.

I've basically been an atheist since early childhood, but Dawkins' book is the first I have read on the subject, in addition to plenty of Mormon history. I want to read The Believing Brain next, or maybe some Hitchens.

When it's politically advantageous for him Dawkins claims to be a "Cultural Christian" who loves to sing Christmas Carols. He's an atheist when he's writing and selling books about atheism and he's a Christian when he's campaigning for political office....

He clearly means he doesn't want to force people to stop putting trees in their houses, advent calendars, stuff like that. He's a cultural Christian, in the sense he recognizes religion's role in history and his personal heritage, but of course he doesn't hold the wacky beliefs. Seriously man, it will be a cold day in nonexistent Hell when he sells out and advocates actually believing the myths, let alone panders to believers. You misunderstand!

(January 26, 2018 at 8:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I just get the sense that Brian does not have malicious or hateful intentions despite his swearing. I don't think he does it on purpose, if that makes sense.

I do cuss on purpose. I'd only agree that I don't have ill intent. 

You could look at me as a blunt version of Judge Judy without a filter. I'd only agree that I would NOT vote for me for president. That is the benefit of being in the private sector.

Look, here is me summed up.

"That was then, this is now"

"Don't be an asshole bigot"

"Don't shit on science"

"Please auction off the Redskins owner to the lowest bidder on E-Bay".

Yes I do cuss, and I to piss people off here. I don't deny that and I won't back off that. But I promise everyone here, even those here whom piss me off to the point of cussing, I am not out to murder them. I would not leave anyone bleeding in the street if I ran across them in a car accident. 

Your logic CL bothers me  as MK, Atlass and Alpha Male. But unlike Alpha, MK and Atlass and you don't worry me anywhere near Alpha does.

(January 26, 2018 at 6:09 pm)wallym Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 6:02 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It only takes one -- he holds the lightbulb, and the world revolves around him.

OMFG!!!!  UM NO!!!  you guys are MISSING the POINT!  Light BULBS are just another CORPORATE tool you people stick your HEADS in the sand and CLIMATE CHANGE!!!

Good Lord. There's two of them.

(January 26, 2018 at 4:09 pm)alpha male Wrote: Meh, if you met me in person you'd like me.

*shrug* Possibly.  Bring the clarinet but pack some extra /s tags for your jokes.  

That study has a strange definition of self control.

Quote: was associated with greater attention regulation and task persistence.

Yeah, liberals smoke more pot.

(January 26, 2018 at 4:21 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: That's the barest minimum. The fact is when people give out of charity, it's not enough to make a dent.

Are you saying there shouldn't be any antipoverty
programs, no matter how needy someone is and how little they are at fault for their situation?

Nope. But I do question the long-term efficacy of such programs. Have cities with long-term democratic governments accomplished much? Give a fish/teach to fish, etc.

(January 27, 2018 at 7:54 am)alpha male Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 4:21 pm)Industrial Lad Wrote: That's the barest minimum. The fact is when people give out of charity, it's not enough to make a dent.

Are you saying there shouldn't be any antipoverty
programs, no matter how needy someone is and how little they are at fault for their situation?

Nope. But I do question the long-term efficacy of such programs. Have cities with long-term democratic governments accomplished much? Give a fish/teach to fish, etc.

I don't know about cities but the states that have traditionally been the most Republican controlled are often the poorest and use the most welfare. I don't even think they are poor because they are Republicans, I think it's the other way around. People turn to religion when they have nothing else and very religious people usually vote Republican. Still I don't know of Republican policies or religion ever turning things around in these states.

Also I will restate that in order to keep getting food stamps and many other forms of government help, unless you're disabled, you have to prove that you are at least applying for jobs. Some help is in the form of programs to get people in work.

But it seems kind of silly to me that if position 1 is : "If we think you need help you will get some, with conditions,"and position 2 is "You're on your own. Get off your lazy ass, you'll get no help!"

That position 2 results in less poverty? Even when a lot of the help some Republicans want to get rid of is education and training so that people can work.

Most of the farthest left don't want everybody to have the same pay no matter what someones job is or if they work at all. They just want equality of opportunity and for people to have the bare minimum if you can't work right now to not starve or go crazy.

Chances are you or someone close to you has benefited from these programs. Perhaps without them they'd be dead, or you wouldn't know them because they'd be homeless.

(January 27, 2018 at 8:16 am)Industrial Lad Wrote: I don't know about cities but the states that have traditionally been the most Republican controlled are often the poorest and use the most welfare. I don't even think they are poor because they are Republicans, I think it's the other way around. People turn to religion when they have nothing else and very religious people usually vote Republican. Still I don't know of Republican policies or religion ever turning things around in these states.

http://www.politifact.com/california/sta...ty-rate-w/

Quote:"If you look at the official poverty measure in California, we’re about average with the rest of the country," Mayes said. "But if you use the supplemental poverty measure [factors in cost of living], we are in the lead. We have the highest poverty rate in the nation -- higher than New Mexico, higher than any of the southern states, Louisiana, Alabama, higher than Idaho."

Quote:Also I will restate that in order to keep getting food stamps and many other forms of government help, unless you're disabled, you have to prove that you are at least applying for jobs. Some help is in the form of programs to get people in work.

But it seems kind of silly to me that if position 1 is : "If we think you need help you will get some, with conditions,"and position 2 is "You're on your own. Get off your lazy ass, you'll get no help!"

That position 2 results in less poverty? Even when a lot of the help some Republicans want to get rid of is education and training so that people can work.

I don't recall anyone taking position 2.

Quote:Most of the farthest left don't want everybody to have the same pay no matter what someones job is or if they work at all.

This I believe.

Quote:They just want equality of opportunity

This is bullshit.

Quote:Chances are you or someone close to you has benefited from these programs. Perhaps without them they'd be dead, or you wouldn't know them because they'd be homeless.

Yes, someone I know benefited temporarily from such programs. That's part of why I'm not against them.

You're fighting a caricature.

(January 27, 2018 at 8:28 am)alpha male Wrote:

(January 27, 2018 at 8:16 am)Industrial Lad Wrote: I don't know about cities but the states that have traditionally been the most Republican controlled are often the poorest and use the most welfare. I don't even think they are poor because they are Republicans, I think it's the other way around. People turn to religion when they have nothing else and very religious people usually vote Republican. Still I don't know of Republican policies or religion ever turning things around in these states.

http://www.politifact.com/california/sta...ty-rate-w/

Quote:"If you look at the official poverty measure in California, we’re about average with the rest of the country," Mayes said. "But if you use the supplemental poverty measure [factors in cost of living], we are in the lead. We have the highest poverty rate in the nation -- higher than New Mexico, higher than any of the southern states, Louisiana, Alabama, higher than Idaho."

Quote:Also I will restate that in order to keep getting food stamps and many other forms of government help, unless you're disabled, you have to prove that you are at least applying for jobs. Some help is in the form of programs to get people in work.

But it seems kind of silly to me that if position 1 is : "If we think you need help you will get some, with conditions,"and position 2 is "You're on your own. Get off your lazy ass, you'll get no help!"

That position 2 results in less poverty? Even when a lot of the help some Republicans want to get rid of is education and training so that people can work.

I don't recall anyone taking position 2.

Quote:Most of the farthest left don't want everybody to have the same pay no matter what someones job is or if they work at all.

This I believe.

Quote:They just want equality of opportunity

This is bullshit.

Quote:Chances are you or someone close to you has benefited from these programs. Perhaps without them they'd be dead, or you wouldn't know them because they'd be homeless.

Yes, someone I know benefited temporarily from such programs. That's part of why I'm not against them.

You're fighting a caricature.

Fair enough. I don't think you replied when I asked you about your position earlier. Still, it's not good to assume. You may have  a point with the cost of living thing, but according to US News, my state, Ohio is the most affordable. It's a pretty shitty state to live in and housing is likely so cheap because no one wants to live here. So perhaps mileage may vary.

Awww, conservatives have more self-control, some study says? That's cute. Here's a star for each one of you.

Now, how about some fucking empathy for the less fortunate?