Not to mention organ transplants suck in the US 

https://newrepublic.com/article/145682/g...ts-america

(February 4, 2018 at 5:40 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Alpha, your example is pathetic.... the search for a donor boils down to luck.
The more people you have, the easier it is to find a matching donor.

Also, thousands of Americans seek cancer treatment in.... Cuba!

Hold it - you note that Americans are going to Cuba because it's offering a drug which hasn't been fully tested yet - and you say my example is pathetic? 

BTW, Canadians are going there for it too.

Quote:Yes, of course they do. With modern technology, no country could afford all possible health care for every single person.

Which refutes your point 

Quote:Uses 15-year-old data: "Source: “,” Health Affairs, May 2002."

You have not proven it's out of date . 

Quote:This one is from 2009, and is one person's opinion without references to any facts.

You still did not challenge it claims . And you still did not show it's out of date 

Quote:Per this one: "But when it came to specialists, 29 percent of adults waited two months or longer, compared with 6 percent in the United States. In Canada, 18 percent of adults waited four months or longer for an elective surgery, compared with 7 percent in the United States." You should really read further than the headline.

which does not refute my point 

Quote:Per this one: "The true ideological problem of Canadian health care is our fondness for pretending we don't already have a two-tier system. Data on health outcomes indicates that people wealthy enough to live in, or drive to, the city have much better access to health care than those who don't. With the continued dismantling of rural hospitals and concentration of services in urban centres, this slippery slope of a trend

Yup which only proves our system is not perfect . It still does not refute my point .

Quote:Do we need to continue?

In what you failing to prove a point

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Quote:Hold it - you note that Americans are going to Cuba because it's offering a drug which hasn't been fully tested yet - and you say my example is pathetic? 

Not tested does not men does not work .

Quote:BTW, Canadians are going there for it too.

Yup which does not refute his point

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Oh and lastly just because the Canadian system is not the best (still better than the US ) that does not refute the concept of universal healthcare . Oh and my cartoons still are far more accurate of for profit medicine.

Quote:So guess what...Canada, or any country with "universal" health care, actually has a two-tiered system. The poor sit on waiting lists to get mediocre service. Those with money just go somewhere else. If the US adopts such a system (which I don't actually oppose), the same would happen.

Nope not every such country has two tired system your ignorance is showing 

Quote:You should make one that says: Sorry Mom, when the government pays for health care it gets rationed, and  there wasn't enough for you:

You already fucking admitted the private system rations healthcare so your point is refuted in fact it's almost worse 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-geym...96230.html

Quote:All health care systems ration care one way or another. There are good ways and bad ways to do it. Ours is a bad and irrational way. It allows for excess, often inappropriate and ineffective care for those who can pay and exclusion of those who suffer worse outcomes due to lack of access and affordability. It is unfair and inhumane when so many millions of Americans cannot gain access to necessary care because of financial barriers. As a result, we have a system of rationing based on ability to pay without regard to medical need. Moreover, we still have no significant containment of prices and costs of health care as well as the worst health care outcomes compared to ten other advanced countries, including Canada. (8)

Oh if your accuse me of not reading a source can i accuse you of reading it selectively

Quote: "So we're better than The United States," he wrote, referring to the rankings. "But should we really aim so low?"

or

Quote:The Commonwealth Fund, a U.S. think tank, released a report two years ago ranking Canada 10th out of 11 wealthy nations in terms of health care. Only the United States fared worse. The report, based largely on satisfaction surveys by patients and health-care providers, placed Canada last in timeliness of care. The United Kingdom was ranked No. 1

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countri...ealth-care ( the UK a country with  universal heahcare higher then the US for profit system in wait times . Hmm i wonder why?)

Quote:Commonwealth Fund, a private American health care reform and international health policy organization, Canada had the second-worst overall ranking among the health care systems of 11 industrialized nations and ranked last in the wait-time category. Only the American health care system ranked worse overall.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/numb...tudy-finds (FYI The national post is a conservative newspaper)

Quote:As opposed to the Democunt health care plan, which is: "if you're rich enough to go to a doctor you can.  Otherwise, fucking die you poor piece of trash."

Or the Canadian: "if you live long enough for your turn to come up, you can go to a doctor. Otherwise, die if you're poor, go to America if you can afford it."

Your country is the worst ranked the worst so STFU. And your system has longer wait times then the UK so Again STFU

Quote:But that's exactly what happens with universal health care. The government decides what resources to devote to healthcare, that amount isn't enough, and people die on waiting lists.

As opposed to your fucked up system were people just die .

Quote:Of course, the difference is that gun rights advocates aren't saying that everyone has a right to a gun from the government.

Already addressed this . What was that about not reading again?

Oh and if Canadians going abroad  is proof our system is bad then 1.4 million  say about the American system ?
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/08/17...Should-You

Oh wait your the worst country in the industrialized world 
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi...rt/533634/

(February 4, 2018 at 4:59 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(February 4, 2018 at 11:20 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Unfortunately there are times where people work hard, do everything right in life, and have good health insurance... but still aren't able to keep up with the extremely high costs when plagued with a difficult and long term diagnoses.

My best friend is currently going through this. Two years ago her symptoms started and have rapidly progressed. As of today she's been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, and autoimmune hepatitis. She needs ongoing care for these chronic life long conditions and is in constant pain. It hurts to breathe, she says, because it stretches her rib cage. It hurts to lay because she is laying on herself and everything hurts. She still manages to drag herself up everyday and work her 12 hour desk job, which is a small miracle in and of itself, but doesn't know how much longer she can do that as her condition continues to progress.

She's finally now starting to go into dept from all the medical bills and still has to keep paying for new visits, treatments, etc. She has good insurance, but that just goes to show how expenssive it all is. It is very expenssive. She's never done anything wrong in her life - doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, never done drugs, never done any sort of risky things... She's just a regular, quiet person, a homebody.

I'll admit I don't know anything about economics and don't really have a "plan" for how to fix this. But I do think there needs to be better options somehow.

I've had two family members die from rheumatoid arthritis. Hate to say it, but doctors make it worse.

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(February 4, 2018 at 4:17 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Yup

Then you're a fucking moron.

Quote:you can be lazy as fuck and make fortune people have . And you can be smart and hard and wind up poor as dirt  people do . Thus blaming people for their own poverty is bullshit.

Anecdotes of exceptions don't disprove the rule.

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(February 4, 2018 at 11:43 am)Divinity Wrote: Republicans: AFFORDABLE CARE ACT DIDN'T SAVE HIM!  SO OUR SOLUTION IS TO MAKE HEALTHCARE LESS AFFORDABLE FOR PEOPLE LIKE HIM SINCE THEY"RE GOING TO DIE ANYWAY, AND CHEAPER FOR ALL OF US HARD WORKERS WHO WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH NOT TO GET SICK!

Until this shitty attitude changes, we're never going to get the solution we need (universal healthcare)

First, no, the GOP isn't working to make health care less affordable. The ACA is still in place you know.

Second, why do you specify Republicans? Democrats have had all the power before, and we didn't get universal healthcare. They could have. They didn't. Next time they're in power...they still won't.

AM that's awful. I'm sorry.

(February 4, 2018 at 4:59 pm)alpha male Wrote: I've had two family members die from rheumatoid arthritis. Hate to say it, but doctors make it worse.

yeah... they keep you alive to live with it!
The bastards!

(February 4, 2018 at 10:32 am)alpha male Wrote:

(February 4, 2018 at 7:57 am)pool the matey Wrote: I don't mind supporting free Healthcare for everyone. 

I wouldn't mind either - if it were accompanied by a ban on tobacco and sugar.

Their lobbyists would hunt you down and kill you.  Those are the kinds of whores you love, remember?

Would not happen in a developed country. Only in third world America.

Quote:Anecdotes of exceptions don't disprove the rule.

You have yet to demonstrate the rule. Nor did i use any Anecdotes. Oh and if the antidotes i never used invalidate my argument .Then what do yours about how easy it was to get healthcare if "you work hard enough" do?

Quote:Then you're a fucking moron.

And that would still  make my bowl excursions 100 smarter than you .

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Quote:I wouldn't mind either - if it were accompanied by a ban on tobacco and sugar.

Bullshit

Their think that's a far more accurate version Dumbass .