(February 6, 2018 at 6:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote: For Jesus/God to be our Lord we have to turn our lives over to Him, this is a process of growth through learned trust because of who He says He is and then proves that to us. As CL said, He is our creator and whether you want Him or not He owns your life and can do with it as He sees fit within His eternal plan. I personally want an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent Being to be my Lord because He know all that is good for me and has the power to make it so. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want their creator to be their Lord, honestly. I know you don't want it and that you will make all sorts of excuses to convince yourself that He's not your creator, what I do not understand is why you can't just man up and say I don't want Him instead of pretending He doesn't exist.

GC

Who's pretending he doesn't exist?

I honestly, truthfully, don't believe in your god. Indeed, I think he's fiction. My question had to do with the Christian mentality of willful surrender, and how it's viewed as an admirable trait/state of being. I doubt I'll ever truly understand it, but I'm willing to try. Not because I want to believe (again, I'm utterly convinced your god isn't real), but because I'm trying to better understand the people who do.

Finally, I've always been incredibly honest about my lack of belief and my motivations for being here. It's not my problem that you're somehow incapable of believing me. Maybe you should take a page out of my book and actually attempt to at least somewhat understand the people you're talking to? Or are you too prideful to man up yourself?

(February 6, 2018 at 9:12 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 6:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote: For Jesus/God to be our Lord we have to turn our lives over to Him, this is a process of growth through learned trust because of who He says He is and then proves that to us. As CL said, He is our creator and whether you want Him or not He owns your life and can do with it as He sees fit within His eternal plan. I personally want an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent Being to be my Lord because He know all that is good for me and has the power to make it so. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want their creator to be their Lord, honestly. I know you don't want it and that you will make all sorts of excuses to convince yourself that He's not your creator, what I do not understand is why you can't just man up and say I don't want Him instead of pretending He doesn't exist.

GC

Who's pretending he doesn't exist?

I honestly, truthfully, don't believe in your god.  Indeed, I think he's fiction.  My question had to do with the Christian mentality of willful surrender, and how it's viewed as an admirable trait/state of being.  I doubt I'll ever truly understand it, but I'm willing to try.  Not because I want to believe (again, I'm utterly convinced your god isn't real), but because I'm trying to better understand the people who do.

Finally, I've always been incredibly honest about my lack of belief and my motivations for being here.  It's not my problem that you're somehow incapable of believing me.  Maybe you should take a page out of my book and actually attempt to at least somewhat understand the people you're talking to?  Or are you too prideful to man up yourself?

 I have accepted Christ and know He is real and no one could ever convince me other wise, I've experienced Him on a level that is undeniable. I have come to better understand atheist, that's why I have stayed so long. You may truly believe that God isn't real, but that doesn't mean He isn't. My experiences are personal but within those experiences God has proved to me that He is who He says He is leaving me nothing to do but accept His existence. I've yet to see any atheist bring forth any information to show God doesn't exist, I've seen multitudes of excuses and because of that I said that atheist pretend He doesn't exist. I can't pretend and wouldn't because I would be denying truth and that is an unacceptable thing to do, truth is a precious thing, this God has taught me in a awesome way.

GC

I strongly doubt you've learned much of anything in your time here.  I've certainly seen no evidence that you have in all of mine. I can't imagine how clueless you must have been before I joined, if the above were even remotely true, lol? If this is you, today, greatly learned by comparison.

(January 30, 2018 at 3:14 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: One of the (many) things I don't understand about Christianity is the notion of wanting Jesus to be your lord.  To want to genuflect before him and be ruled over by him.  As an American, the idea of a central, non-democratically elected leader is completely anathema to my beliefs, and it confuses me that so many self-proclaimed patriots here seem so willing to be lorded over in a divine sense.  IMO, a beneficial dictator is still a dictator.

So, Christians of AF, why do you want to be lorded over by Jesus?  Why is this something you desire?

But what if that non democratically elected leader was your personal Father.... Could you still not see any benefit that may befall you and your brothers and sisters personally? So what if he is brutally hard on those who hate you and your siblings, so what if he is known as a tryant for those who rebell and rebuke His authority..

Now before you go off and defend your little life.. know my answer does not judge you specifically but answers your question. Why would you want a non duely elected "lord" over you. Again it is because we are 'kin' to that lord and see the benefits from coming from Him. And it does not matter what other people see. we know they see what they want to see because they are not included in their current state therefore can and will say/do anythig to make God the evil one for not being all inclusive.

The benevolent dictator is doling out favors to his kids and annihilating anyone who suggests that he and his children are shitty people?  His kids, for their part, employ the fuck you got mine theory of ethics in governance? Imagine that.

Who "duely elected" this lord of yours, anyway? Lemme guess. Baby boy thinks mommy and daddy would be a great rulers because lollipops? Somehow I doubt that the moral agency of an infant or their loyalty to the cosmic tit is all that compelling to anyone who isn't suckling on it.

(February 6, 2018 at 6:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote: For Jesus/God to be our Lord we have to turn our lives over to Him, this is a process of growth through learned trust because of who He says He is and then proves that to us. As CL said, He is our creator and whether you want Him or not He owns your life and can do with it as He sees fit within His eternal plan. I personally want an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent Being to be my Lord because He know all that is good for me and has the power to make it so. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want their creator to be their Lord, honestly. I know you don't want it and that you will make all sorts of excuses to convince yourself that He's not your creator, what I do not understand is why you can't just man up and say I don't want Him instead of pretending He doesn't exist.

GC

In plain language I don't give a rat's ass if Yeshua existed, still exists, or will exist.  He is less credible than any of the other thousands of ethnocentric deities con men have created around the world throughout thousands of years.  Just like I don't worship any of them I don't and won't worship a Jewish zombie.  He is irrelevant to me.

(February 7, 2018 at 1:06 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(February 6, 2018 at 9:12 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Who's pretending he doesn't exist?

I honestly, truthfully, don't believe in your god.  Indeed, I think he's fiction.  My question had to do with the Christian mentality of willful surrender, and how it's viewed as an admirable trait/state of being.  I doubt I'll ever truly understand it, but I'm willing to try.  Not because I want to believe (again, I'm utterly convinced your god isn't real), but because I'm trying to better understand the people who do.

Finally, I've always been incredibly honest about my lack of belief and my motivations for being here.  It's not my problem that you're somehow incapable of believing me.  Maybe you should take a page out of my book and actually attempt to at least somewhat understand the people you're talking to?  Or are you too prideful to man up yourself?

 I have accepted Christ and know He is real and no one could ever convince me other wise, I've experienced Him on a level that is undeniable. I have come to better understand atheist, that's why I have stayed so long. You may truly believe that God isn't real, but that doesn't mean He isn't. My experiences are personal but within those experiences God has proved to me that He is who He says He is leaving me nothing to do but accept His existence. I've yet to see any atheist bring forth any information to show God doesn't exist, I've seen multitudes of excuses and because of that I said that atheist pretend He doesn't exist. I can't pretend and wouldn't because I would be denying truth and that is an unacceptable thing to do, truth is a precious thing, this God has taught me in a awesome way.

GC

And I am speaking from what I believe to be the truth. I believe you have deluded yourself. The experiences you have had were NOT of God, but were, instead, a type of brain fart. After that, you get confirmation bias.

I also will not deny the truth: that there is no evidence for a God. That, to me, is quite sufficient reason to not believe in a God. To deny that is perverse, in my view.

As for Jesus being your Lord: you are, in essence, deciding to be a child. You pawn your moral decisions off on another being. But even if that being is beneficent, your refusal of moral responsibility is not. The adoption of a Lord is, in and of itself, an immoral act. Yes, even if that creature is your creator.

Think about it the other way around. Suppose humans manage to create artificial intelligences with their own 'free will'. Would you want these intelligences to *worship* us? I certainly HOPE not. To even *ask* for worship makes one unworthy of it. And to worship makes the worshiper unworthy of respect. It is *inherently* degrading to adopt a dictator, even if that dictator is your creator.

Here's how George Harrison, the guitarist for the Beatles described his relationship with god Krishna:
"If there’s a God, I want to see Him. It’s pointless to believe in something without proof, and Krishna Consciousness and meditation are methods where you can actually obtain GOD perception. You can actually see God, and Hear Him, play with Him. It might sound crazy, but He is actually there, actually with you."

But Godscreated also had experience but of another god, so which god should I accept in my life?
I mean Harrison had much richer life and was smarter then Godscreated so maybe I should go with Krishna after all?