(February 16, 2018 at 11:12 am)Divinity Wrote: I find that most gun nuts don't want discussion.  Especially about gun control.  So they try to steer the conversation to vague ideas so as to distract everyone from the issue long enough, hoping their politicians will be able to brave through public opinion until their next donation from the NRA.

I don't think you have room to talk with your previous description.   Either that or you just like your gun phobic rhetoric more than you value kids lives!

(February 16, 2018 at 11:03 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(February 16, 2018 at 10:58 am)Divinity Wrote: People are always quick to defend their precious little toys with the idea that "Anything can be used as a weapon!"

Then why the fuck doesn't it happen more often?  You know what you don't hear about on the news at least once a week?  People driving into large groups of other people.  You know what you DO hear about on the news at least once a week?  MASS SHOOTINGS.  This includes, funny enough, countries where gun ownership is very low.  Gee, I wonder why the fuck that is?  And that's not to mention that bollards can help prevent car attacks, while they do fuck all to guns.  

You know, I'd feel a lot better about these conversations if people were more honest, and just said "I don't give a fuck about kids getting killed.  I like guns, and I don't care how many kids die, I don't want to give them up to protect a single one of them.  Their deaths are an acceptable price to pay for my toys."

If you want an honest conversation, I don't think demanding what you want to hear is a good start.  In my opinion, you have a pretty poor view of your opposition, and in my experience, people who talk like this, are not really interested in reason or discussion.

I'd like to have an honest conversation.

My position is this:

I think there should be stricter gun laws. Not saying all guns should be banned, of course. But I do think there should be more restriction and regulation for who is allowed to buy them. Anyone with any sort of criminal past on record, or mental illness involving any sort of violent tendencies or suicidal tendencies, should be put on some sort of no gun list. Maybe having to take a gun safety course and a psych evaluation test would be a good idea as well. A referral from your family physician saying you are in good enough mental health and not a threat to self and others. ...I dunno, just throwing some ideas out there.

Also, there should be more restrictions on the types of guns that are legal to own. I don't know anything about guns, but I do know that some can shoot many more rounds in a much shorter time than others. Some have types of bullets that are particularly deadly. There's a reason why we send out ground troops out in machine guns and not little hand guns. I get baring arms and having the right to defend yourself, but there's no reason why a person needs to own a type of gun that is so deadly unless they are going to war.

(February 16, 2018 at 3:37 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(February 15, 2018 at 8:23 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Are you including suicides?

Yes. Should I not?

In this context, it strikes me as conflation. Of course, I think suicide should be a right anyway.

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(February 16, 2018 at 5:50 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: If you can't just don't bring it up anymore , we all know who kills but is no way to change people so much in a short term so that is why a quick solution is in need.

That's silly. If you can't cure cancer stop researching it? When you have difficult issues, discussion is pretty much required.

Shouting people down doesn't solve anything.

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(February 16, 2018 at 10:00 am)Aegon Wrote:

(February 16, 2018 at 2:48 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_New_Y...uck_attack

When anything can be a weapon, we'd ought to spend our energy addressing causes rather than means. I mean, if you want to kill ants, you can stamp about the countryside all day long, or you can look for the hive.

The answer actually is: he would have slammed into brick or a concrete and nobody would've been hurt. Its easier to get a car rather than a gun (at least a tad) but he chose to use a gun. Guns are deadlier, easier, to kill, work better for the goals.

"Nobody would've been hurt" is distinctly overoptimistic. People get hurt in vehicle/building collisions. You're also assuming that he would not have expressed his murderous rage elsewhere. Of course guns are more efficient killing machines. My point is that too many people see further gun restrictions as a cure-all (see the 1234 guy above).

(February 16, 2018 at 10:00 am)Aegon Wrote: I can't think of a single reason that we have this problem other than WE HAVE SO MANY GUNS EVERYWHERE. It's common sense at this point.

Of course, we're in agreement about that. No need to go all-caps on me, bud.

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(February 16, 2018 at 10:58 am)Divinity Wrote: People are always quick to defend their precious little toys with the idea that "Anything can be used as a weapon!"

I don't own a gun, and I'm not defending anything, so bite me.

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(February 16, 2018 at 4:51 am)pocaracas Wrote: ... nor would it have happened 17 times in the past 47 days, a rate of more than two per week.

I posted a link above about that alleged statistic.

[quote pid='1702572' dateline='1518795036']
notimportant1234If you can't just don't bring it up anymore , we all know who kills but is no way to change people so much in a short term so that is why a quick solution is in need.

That's silly. If you can't cure cancer stop researching it? When you have difficult issues, discussion is pretty much required.

Shouting people down doesn't solve anything.

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[/quote]

I did sayed on the short term didn't I ? Or have you came up with a mirraculous solution ? It's not that we shouldn't tackle the problem but that it take's time , gun control it s faster.
And btw , the topic was about shooting not violence. The best way to reduce shootings is gun control but we can talk about reducing violence too if you want altough it is off topic.

(February 16, 2018 at 11:30 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(February 16, 2018 at 3:37 am)pocaracas Wrote: Yes. Should I not?

In this context, it strikes me as conflation. Of course, I think suicide should be a right anyway.

If it's a right, then apply for Euthanasia. death by handgun, while the most efficient method of suicide around, isn't the cleanest.

(February 16, 2018 at 11:30 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(February 16, 2018 at 4:51 am)pocaracas Wrote: ... nor would it have happened 17 times in the past 47 days, a rate of more than two per week.

I posted a link above about that alleged statistic.

woo hooo... 2 per week?... One per week, one per month, one per year... How many is too many?
If there's a rate at which this sort of thing happens, it's not ok, by my book.

(February 16, 2018 at 11:30 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I don't own a gun, and I'm not defending anything, so bite me.

If you're not defending guns, okay then.  Thanks for clarification.  However, those that present those types of sentiments tend to prefer to deflect the issue without providing any solutions.  They'll cry about mental health, they'll cry about video games, they'll cry about movies, anything to deflect from guns--when guns are definitely a part of the problem.  I'm so sick of hearing about these mass shootings.  My heart was SHATTERED when I heard about the Sandy Hook shootings.  Fuck, my heart was shattered when I heard about Columbine.  But Sandy Hook was an absolute breaking point.  These were little kids that got killed, little kids and their teachers.  Just going about their day.  Just like the people in Aurora, the people at the Pulse Night Club, and the people in Las Vegas.  It frustrates me to no end that we refuse to do fuck all about it.  And I'm sick of it.  We live in a country where you can't take a fucking water bottle on an airplane.  You can't possess a certain amount of a goddamn plant without being locked up in jail for life.  But these kids get killed... and our politicians do nothing more than send their fucking thoughts and prayers.  We have an entire organization dedicated to not just making sure that citizens can own guns, but to make sure there is ZERO burden on anyone wanting to buy any gun they want (unless it's a Smart gun, of course).  These kids are 14-15 years old.  Not even old enough to drive yet.  These are kids born after 9/11.  Kids who woke up, went to school, and expected to come home that day.  They probably had plans for the weekend.  Maybe even for Valentine's Day.  The presents they got from last Christmas are still pretty new.   They probably had dreams of going to college, making something of their life.  They had friends, parents, siblings.   Now their parents have to mourn their kids.  And honestly it isn't any better when it's adults being shot either.  Those are parents, teachers, friends, brothers, sisters... Kids aren't where I want to draw the line.  Kids are just past the line.  Way past acceptable.  I'm frustrated, and I'm tired, and I want us to fucking do something.  I'm tired of doing nothing.  Nothing isn't working.

One a century is too many.

Having a gun in the house puts suicidal people at a much higher risk of killing themselves. Suicide because of mental illness is most often =/= euthanasia by any stretch. I say this as a former gun owner, enthusiast and occasional suicidal(ish) person. We don't have guns for this exact reason.

Let's eradicate all humans , problem solved.

(February 16, 2018 at 4:38 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(February 14, 2018 at 4:10 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: These shootings keep happening, but apparently guns still aren't the problem.

 Joods this will be my only reply to gun control on your thread. Guns do not jump off tables and start shooting people, people have to use them to hurt other and if we would do a better job of teaching people love and not hate these things would rarely happen.

GC

That's really ironic coming from a xhristard.  "Hate" is your stock in trade.

(February 16, 2018 at 12:44 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: Let's eradicate all humans , problem solved.

If the goal is to eliminate gun deaths, that would be a comprehensive and viable solution.