Speaking from personal experience and focusing on my shift from Catholicism to atheism... it was something that sort of clicked. My heart definitely wanted to believe in God, and believe in the heavens, and believe that there was a place waiting for me when I died. But my head just sort of said... "Oh that isn't very likely, is it?" 16 years of indoctrination gone in an instant. I was definitely a little upset at first, because it wasn't something I wanted to be true, but it was done. I couldn't force my head to believe something just because my heart wanted it to be true. I just had to accept the reality and move past it.

Now, thinking about other things... yes, I'm a liberal. Of course my heart dictates my head sometimes. I want the best for the most people, and I want people to be happy. Overall, however, I think I am a pragmatic and realistic individual, and through practicing mindfulness and walking meditation I am quite aware of myself and my flaws. I think I've done a good job of being able to put my head before my heart in most situations; although sometimes I willingly let my heart lead me because life is generally more fun that way.

It is irrational to allow their heart to override their heads . Reality is it's own reward and falsehoods only get in the way of true happiness . Beta is desperately to drag us down into the pit he's dug himself . And excuse himself of his own faults by pretending all share them . Thou this is an interesting subject even without religious connotation as it pertains to so many ideas . But really that's my overall opinion on the matter .

Depends on the person. As they say, some people lead with their heart and others lead with their head. I'm pretty left brained and I'm not really into the whole "think positive" mentality. I'd rather just think realistically (aka, with my head).

Over the entrance to his academy, Plato had a sign which read, "Let no one ignorant of geometry pass through these gates." I think it is important to consider things like mathematics when we compare logic to emotion. Math is purely logical. That's pretty clear, isn't it? Math doesn't allow for one's feelings to enter into its processes. Nobody gets emotional over an equation... even word problems... we don't really care about the contents of the word problem, we just look for the logically relevant parts.

In the same way, as Khem pointed out earlier, logic attempts to afford us a vision of the world unobscured by the fog of our emotions.

I've had my mind changed by logical arguments. The question is: were these arguments really appealing to my logical sense?-- or were they merely playing on my emotional affinity for the conclusion? After some reflection, I would have to say the former, at least in most cases that come to mind.

In short, attempting to be logical is to try to bring mathematical precision into one's assessment of the world. It is putting the emotional sense in check.

What makes Alpha's statement so powerful is that, deep down, we trust our hearts more. We want our emotions to be right. When logic confirms what we intuit emotionally, we experience a sense of triumph. When logic disproves something in which we have an emotional investment, we experience a sense of loss.

So, yes, we are essentially emotional beings. Emotion is a great force within us and makes up more of who we are than our logical selves. I'd like to mention Plato again, because he was quite aware of this aspect in human beings. In his allegory of the chariot, he likened the human psyche to a chariot. The two horses of the chariot represent desire and emotion. The charioteer represents logic. To Plato, a wise individual is one who's logical part learns how to steer the tempramental horses effectively. Embedded in Plato's allegory is the notion that our emotion and desire are far stronger in us than logic and reason. Logic cannot power the chariot into forward motion like desire and emotion can. But, nonetheless, unless our desire and emotion is "reined in" and "kept on a path" our lives will utterly lack direction and easily stray off course. So it is with the pursuit of truth.

What's all this "we" shit.  I know better than to trust my lyin cheatin, cold dead beatin, two timin double dealin.... meanness treatin..... lovin heart.*  

*

In the matter of loving sweets, what is there to folow other than the heart?

(March 15, 2018 at 6:05 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Over the entrance to his academy, Plato had a sign which read, "Let no one ignorant of geometry pass through these gates." I think it is important to consider things like mathematics when we compare logic to emotion. Math is purely logical. That's pretty clear, isn't it? Math doesn't allow for one's feelings to enter into its processes. Nobody gets emotional over an equation... even word problems... we don't really care about the contents of the word problem, we just look for the logically relevant parts.

In the same way, as Khem pointed out earlier, logic attempts to afford us a vision of the world unobscured by the fog of our emotions.

I've had my mind changed by logical arguments. The question is: were these arguments really appealing to my logical sense?-- or were they merely playing on my emotional affinity for the conclusion? After some reflection, I would have to say the former, at least in most cases that come to mind.

I short, attempting to be logical is to try to bring mathematical precision into one's assessment of the world. It is putting the emotional sense in check.

What makes Alpha's statement so powerful is that, deep down, we trust our hearts more. We want our emotions to be right. When logic confirms what we intuit emotionally, we experience a sense of triumph. When logic disproves something in which we have an emotional investment, we experience a sense of loss.

So, yes, we are essentially emotional beings. Emotion is a great force within us and makes up more of who we are than our logical selves. I'd like to mention Plato again, because he was quite aware of this aspect in human beings. In his allegory of the chariot, he likened the human psyche to a chariot. The two horses of the chariot represent desire and emotion. The charioteer represents logic. To Plato, a wise individual is one who's logical part learns how to steer the chariot effectively. But embedded in Plato's allegory is the notion that our emotion and desire are far stronger in us than our logical and reason. Logic cannot power the chariot into forward motion like desire and emotion can. But, nonetheless, unless our desire and emotion is "reined in" and "kept on a path" our lives will utterly lack direction and easily stray off course. So it is with the pursuit of truth.

I must disagree . To steal Plato's analogy i think the horses are logic and reason pulling us towards the green pastures and water  of truth . And the driver is emotion filled with fear that his preferences will not be found there .So he struggles against the reins desperate to not go to the truth. Because his perspective that joy and good must look like his delusions . But he will never find happiness in this struggle. He will simply grow exhausted and be miserable . As it is with accepting comforting lies over just letting the truth flow or journeying toward it . 

As for the idea of gain and loss . Having a false idea is no triumph it's standing on a landfill hill in your tighty whities holding a broomstick high like your some form of hero while people laugh at you . Being rid  from such falsehoods is coming down from the hill putting some pants on and putting down the broom . How can that not be a gain ?

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(March 15, 2018 at 6:31 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: In the matter of loving sweets, what is there to folow other than the heart?

The fact that the sweets will not kill you right away . And as long as you don't consist on sweets . You'll be fine .

I am pretty tired so I didn't want to adress the topic with a proper argument. You seem to be against emotions and I can't understand why. Where would be the fun withouth emotions ? How would we feel withouth feelings?

Quote:I doubt that any useful generality like that can be maintained vigorously

I don't really see them as useful 

Quote:. We often wish to be wrong, as well.

Wrongness is growth 

Quote:We might be suspiscious that our lover has a side piece

And if it's so is it not better to know? 

Quote:..or we might be convinced that some horrible thing x will happen

Horrible being a general term will inevitably happen 

Quote:.but no matter how hard we want to believe otherwise, we can't. Finding out that our suspicions were wrong or watching doomsday come and pass uneventfully produces relief, in those instances, not loss. Similarly, I think we could all think of times in our life when logic confirmed some intuition that amounted to misery rather than triumph.

 I agree with most of this.

I think the quote in the OP is totally true. However, some people's hearts are filled with a lust for truth. That's why people walk away from religion every day.